JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Calaber]

Damn straight, I have written to Abbott twice now (had replies both times, no reply from Gillards office though ) outlining in the community of people I deal with the job benefits of us small business owners alone in allowing same sex marriage. I would love nothing more than for it to be passed tomorrow, I think if T.A gets in, he will allow a conscience vote and we will saw laws passed to allow it.

I already have dozens of weddings booked to go once laws pass, many of my couples waiting do not want to go abroad to do it, nor should they have to.

Hmm, interesting outlook on the GM issue, Minux. I can see your point so far as business goes, although one suspects an initial flush of applicants would eventually recede as the numbers of gay marriages eliminated the backlog. Still, it would be an ongoing business, just not always at the initial level.

However, the recent push for GM to passed as law in Australia, particularly now that our Trans-Tasman cousins have accepted it, makes me wonder where the emphasis should lie with the activities of Federal Parliament today. We have many issues of concern in this country, most, if not all of which are vital and concern us all to some extent. But is GM really so vital that it gets pushed to the head of the queue? I doubt it, though not being gay, it's of no interest to me at all. I just get ticked off that this one issue keeps bobbing up as if it's the most important thing we have to address, otherwise we "fail" as a nation and stay "behind the times" compared to other countries. What crap. NZ is only the 13th country to pass GM. Last time I looked, there were well over 160 countries on this planet, so those arguments don't hold much water as far as I'm concerned.

 

[minux]

Hmm, interesting outlook on the GM issue, Minux. I can see your point so far as business goes, although one suspects an initial flush of applicants would eventually recede as the numbers of gay marriages eliminated the backlog. Still, it would be an ongoing business, just not always at the initial level.

However, the recent push for GM to passed as law in Australia, particularly now that our Trans-Tasman cousins have accepted it, makes me wonder where the emphasis should lie with the activities of Federal Parliament today. We have many issues of concern in this country, most, if not all of which are vital and concern us all to some extent. But is GM really so vital that it gets pushed to the head of the queue? I doubt it, though not being gay, it's of no interest to me at all. I just get ticked off that this one issue keeps bobbing up as if it's the most important thing we have to address, otherwise we "fail" as a nation and stay "behind the times" compared to other countries. What crap. NZ is only the 13th country to pass GM. Last time I looked, there were well over 160 countries on this planet, so those arguments don't hold much water as far as I'm concerned.

I think the main reason it keeps popping up is simple, we always hear how we are a fair country yet in the case of SS marriages, it seems not so fair.

Sure we have other much more important issues. but this one simple thing can be taken care of in 5 minutes. Just take care of it and move on!

 

[DAKSTER]

+ 1 on gay marriage, it matters not one bit to me if they want to get married, let them. It may well create a whole new industry, agreed.

On the point of free trade, there is merit in some level of protectionism, but how far do you go? A closed economy is not a good thing, we need to export to grow. Make it too hard or unviable for other countries to trade with us and they just wont.

I'd certainly be in favour of getting rid of the useless crap sold in those dollar store setups, its money for nothing when the quality is such that it wont work for more than 10 minutes if at all. On the other hand, many of those stores are owned by local small business just trying to make a living, and its likely that they actually make more out of the product than the Chinese suppliers.. its a fine line to walk really. If we force those businesses to buy locally, they will simply go out of business.

Protectionism is fine under some circumstances but where you draw the line is the difficult thing.

Multinationals should never be allowed controlling interests in Australian companies in my view (and in most cases I am pretty sure they aren't allowed to). If they want a presence here, and I think that's a good thing, well and good.. but it needs to be in minority partnership with Australians. They should be able to invest in an Australian business, investment is a good thing, but never to control it. I admit I am guessing here, but I would think it highly unlikely that the Chinese would ever allow a foreign business to have final control of a Chinese subsidiary.

Even companies like Ikea etc, global multinationals, only have franchises here AFAIK. Like any franchise they have some control over marketing strategies etc but in the end, the business you are buying from is in the large part locally owned and managed, and the majority of profits remain here. I have no problem whatsoever with that.

Personally, I choose to buy Australian whenever possible. You cant just shut the door on imports though, because you will destroy the export market in doing so, and we need that.

Reaper, I agree with you totally on the fact that you cannot have infinite debt levels. However any business has a certain level of debt attached to it, and govco is a business, just a very large one, with shareholders (the taxpayer) products (govco services) and dividends (taxpayers making a profit under govco policies and incentives).

Most businesses would be very happy indeed to have similar asset/debt levels to Australia's govco, and comparing them to financial basket cases like Greece is just ridiculous. Greece got in trouble with excessively generous pension schemes and a retirement age of 55, and it came back to bite them in a very aggressive way when it came time to pay the piper.

Governments on both sides of the coin successfully continue to make Australia.biz a successful concern, and have done for generations. Both sides have a different approach to the way they do business, but neither side have ever had excessive ongoing debt levels when you compare it to almost any successful business.

 

[Reaper]

Reaper, I agree with you totally on the fact that you cannot have infinite debt levels. However any business has a certain level of debt attached to it, and govco is a business, just a very large one, with shareholders (the taxpayer) products (govco services) and growth (taxpayers making a profit under govco policies and incentives).

Most businesses would be very happy indeed to have similar asset/debt levels to Australia's govco, and comparing them to financial basket cases like Greece is just ridiculous. Greece got in trouble with excessively generous pension schemes and a retirement age of 55, and it came back to bite them in a very aggressive way when it came time to pay the piper.

Governments on both sides of the coin successfully continue to make Australia.biz a successful concern, and have done for generations. Both sides have a different approach to the way they do business, but neither side have ever had excessive ongoing debt levels when you compare it to almost any successful business.

My issue is not the actual level of debt Australia currently has. Meh - as a ratio of GDP it's not particularly high. The problem is the trend that seems to be coming more and more inset that year on year it's getting bigger. I think this year will be the 7th straight (even if they did achieve a small surplus it would have been from fiddling the books). Running a deficit budget over the GFC was entirely appropriate but what we have now is something far more endemic than that. What is particularly alarming is our debt levels is raising at one of the fastest rates in the world. That trend is the problem and needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP. Borrowing once in a while for a large purchase is fine, continually putting the recurring monthly expenses on the cc is dangerous.

 

[DAKSTER]

My issue is not the actual level of debt Australia currently has. Meh - as a ratio of GDP it's not particularly high. The problem is the trend that seems to be coming more and more inset that year on year it's getting bigger. I think this year will be the 7th straight (even if they did achieve a small surplus it would have been from fiddling the books). Running a deficit budget over the GFC was entirely appropriate but what we have now is something far more endemic than that. What is particularly alarming is our debt levels is raising at one of the fastest rates in the world. That trend is the problem and needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP. Borrowing once in a while for a large purchase is fine, continually putting the recurring monthly expenses on the cc is dangerous.

Agreed. We have a number of projects in the pipeline, all of them good for the country IMO. Its now time to consolidate and curb additional debt. That doesn't however mean we have to slash all normal spending in a panic, and that's what is happening right now in QLD.

 

[minux]

Julia Gillard fails to secure support for school funding overhaul at COAG meeting | News.com.au

Seems the gonski reforms are goneski!

Sources said no other states or territories had agreed to the Prime Minister’s two-for-one funding offer, with some questioning their allocation of funding and Labor premiers being uneasy with the division of funds between public and private schools.

Those damn misogynist leaders!

 

[vr94ss]

Damn straight, I have written to Abbott twice now (had replies both times, no reply from Gillards office though ) outlining in the community of people I deal with the job benefits of us small business owners alone in allowing same sex marriage. I would love nothing more than for it to be passed tomorrow, I think if T.A gets in, he will allow a conscience vote and we will saw laws passed to allow it.

I already have dozens of weddings booked to go once laws pass, many of my couples waiting do not want to go abroad to do it, nor should they have to.

I hope one side or the other finally deal with this, it's been a pretty poor effort by both. The public is overwhelmingly for it. I don't know TA will be doing anything to rectify the matter, he could have allowed a conscience vote when Labor did and the parliament voted on it. If you remember when he was Health Minister under Howard he tried to veto RU486, calling it an abortion pill, and the parliament thusly voted to remove that power from ministers. It shows a fundamental religious side that I doubt very much will be gay friendly.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...able-says-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226623893775

 

[vr94ss]

And yeah, I'm fine with telling some that they are stupid because in the context of it, they were trying to present the argument that there is no problem with infinite debt levels and we should just go borrow as a country as much as we like. For that matter, why even bother with taxes at all??? Just borrow it all :bang:. Greece tried something similar for a while - ever looked into how it has worked out for them?

Where did you see me say debt levels should be infinite? I'm saying we don't have much of a problem and what we are getting for it is worthwhile and is good for Au. You ran to the extreme of infinite to try and make your argument stand, no-one said it before you. Stupid pics that claim we need to have a balanced budgets like a family, that are simplified to the point of absurdity, for no other reason than to appeal to the people whose lives outlooks are defined in simple but inaccurate one liners.

Greece wouldn't be in half the trouble it's in now if it didn't have to use the Euro as their currency, see using "Real Dollars" and "Family Bucks" in the posted link above. If the Eurozone was a country and could therefore use the common wealth to support less able states, like federations of states like Au and USA do, we probably wouldn't see the problems in Europe we do now.

 

[DAKSTER]

Where did you see me say debt levels should be infinite? I'm saying we don't have much of a problem and what we are getting for it is worthwhile and is good for Au. You ran to the extreme of infinite to try and make your argument stand, no-one said it before you. Stupid pics that claim we need to have a balanced budgets like a family, that are simplified to the point of absurdity, for no other reason than to appeal to the people whose lives outlooks are defined in simple but inaccurate one liners.

Greece wouldn't be in half the trouble it's in now if it didn't have to use the Euro as their currency, see using "Real Dollars" and "Family Bucks" in the posted link above. If the Eurozone was a country and could therefore use the common wealth to support less able states, like federations of states like Au and USA do, we probably wouldn't see the problems in Europe we do now.

Greece also doesnt have control of its currency like we do. They cant devalue the currency or lower interest rates to provide economic stimulus, that's all decided by the ECB in Frankfurt.

In the end, the huge public sector cuts then reduce revenue, and they just get into an ever deeper hole.

I can see the logic in the Eurozone, but for some countries, particularly Greece with an aging population and excessively generous social security scheme, its just not going to work. Borrowing cash is an incredibly expensive exercise for them, due to their trashed economy nobody will lend them money at a reasonable rate. Can't say I blame the investors for that of course, you would have to consider them a high risk investment.

I think the best thing Greece could really do is get out of the Euro, default on its debts, and try to start again. It couldn't be much worse than whats happening now.

I'm just happy to be Australian.

 

[Reaper]

Where did you see me say debt levels should be infinite? I'm saying we don't have much of a problem and what we are getting for it is worthwhile and is good for Au. You ran to the extreme of infinite to try and make your argument stand, no-one said it before you. Stupid pics that claim we need to have a balanced budgets like a family, that are simplified to the point of absurdity, for no other reason than to appeal to the people whose lives outlooks are defined in simple but inaccurate one liners.

Greece wouldn't be in half the trouble it's in now if it didn't have to use the Euro as their currency, see using "Real Dollars" and "Family Bucks" in the posted link above. If the Eurozone was a country and could therefore use the common wealth to support less able states, like federations of states like Au and USA do, we probably wouldn't see the problems in Europe we do now.

How many times do you have to be told - the problem is getting into the habit of running deficit budgets year in year out. That is the way we are heading and it's not in a small way.

Greece also doesnt have control of its currency like we do. They cant devalue the currency or lower interest rates to provide economic stimulus, that's all decided by the ECB in Frankfurt.

In the end, the huge public sector cuts then reduce revenue, and they just get into an ever deeper hole.

Then what would you cut that will produce a meaningful contribution to the bottom line? Of course you also have the option of raising taxes although in the Australian state government context that is very limited.

I can see the logic in the Eurozone, but for some countries, particularly Greece with an aging population and excessively generous social security scheme, its just not going to work. Borrowing cash is an incredibly expensive exercise for them, due to their trashed economy nobody will lend them money at a reasonable rate. Can't say I blame the investors for that of course, you would have to consider them a high risk investment.

I think the best thing Greece could really do is get out of the Euro, default on its debts, and try to start again. It couldn't be much worse than whats happening now.

I'm just happy to be Australian.

You are right that the single Euro currency hasn't helped the Greek situation. That said, Greece has been broke so many times thru history and have had a long track record of being very lax with their tax collection, it was inevitable, eurozone or not. In hindsight it's probably a good thing they have been pushed into making some big structural changes although weather it stays that way seems like a day by day proposition depending on who is running the place this week.