JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[minux]

I am being party political however in saying that labour would probably not interfere with an inherited project that has already begun and has had a major investment already made in it, provided it was something worthwhile.
Abbot on the other hand has already stated that the NBN will get major changes made to it, crippling it as a national resource and wasting the huge amount of money already spent on it, just to make a point.

The NBN has barely started rolling out, I would hardly say it would be crippling it. They have now reviewed down how many houses it will pass by about 70% for June this year. It is a good time to switch and make FTTH/P a user pay system. This way those who want fast porn and illegal movies can pay for it and inject funds back to the NBN project. Those who do not want it can be happy with speeds 10 times faster than current adsl speeds.


Edit:

I thought I would add in going back to past posts about investing/moving money to reduce taxable income.

I have just been with my accountant for the past 2 hours, we now have everything setup. Basically doing things absolutely legally, I could if I wanted to be a bludger claim unemployment benefits lol.

This is where the system is tad wrong, while I am all for moving funds to cover investments and reducing my own taxable income for doing so, I don't think I should be able to get unemployment benefits lol.

 

[DAKSTER]

The NBN has barely started rolling out, I would hardly say it would be crippling it. They have now reviewed down how many houses it will pass by about 70% for June this year. It is a good time to switch and make FTTH/P a user pay system. This way those who want fast porn and illegal movies can pay for it and inject funds back to the NBN project. Those who do not want it can be happy with speeds 10 times faster than current adsl speeds.

You continue to bury your head in the sand and assume that fast internet is only for porn and illegal movies. I'll continue to point out that people saw the car in the same light once. Fast internet is vital if we are so stay competitive in so many ways in the future.

It is a user pays system. Those that don't use it will benefit from the income generated by those that do, it ultimately wont cost you personally a brass razoo, in fact you will eventually profit from it.. provided it isn't sold off like every other profit making government enterprise.

It will be crippled by going with the most inferior available technology. Not only that, but estimates put the cost at about half of the good system, but as is continually pointed out here, there is no upgrade path.. so you want to waste billions in the short term to put off something that will have to be done eventually in the long term anyway. The Abbot system will also require much more maintenance. energy and service costs than the NBN (as currently planned) ever will, and will never be any more reliable than it is now.

It surprises me that you don't see the economic logic of doing something right the first time. I think the basic problem here is you simply don't understand why fast internet is so important.. as you say, you think the only purpose it has is porn and illegal downloads.

The NBN is a potential gold mine for the government, provided it stays in government hands. Its an investment on so many levels, not a waste of cash at all. If it goes in Abbots direction, its a total waste of billions of dollars.


On my other topic, how do you and others feel about having religion becoming a part of public school again? We are talking about a Jesuit prime minister here, I think in all likelihood there will be at least a partial revival of this. Does that concern anyone else here, or am I alone on this one?

 

[VRSenator065]

Just a legit question, is there anywhere in the world that has implemented a nation wide broadband network the same as our current Labor design?

 

[minux]

You continue to bury your head in the sand and assume that fast internet is only for porn and illegal movies. I'll continue to point out that people saw the car in the same light once. Fast internet is vital if we are so stay competitive in so many ways in the future.

Tell me what it is you or I will need to do at home with a 100mbit connection...please tell me. I am dying to know. I run my 2 businesses from home now and have no issue at all doing what I need to do, including the uploading of 4+gb files.

I was unaware also that cars where entirely funded and handed out to every by the government...must of missed that history lesson.

It is a user pays system. Those that don't use it will benefit from the income generated by those that do, it ultimately wont cost you personally a brass razoo, in fact you will eventually profit from it.. provided it isn't sold off like every other profit making government enterprise.

Err...it is a user subscribe system, not a user pays system. You are not having to pay for the connection from the node to your premises as such you are paying to subscribe. How will it not cost me money? It may not cost the unemployed money but my taxes are sure as hell paying for it and at the rate of blowouts my great great grandchildren will continue to pay for it.

It will be crippled by going with the most inferior available technology. Not only that, but estimates put the cost at about half of the good system, but as is continually pointed out here, there is no upgrade path.. so you want to waste billions in the short term to put off something that will have to be done eventually in the long term anyway. The Abbot system will also require much more maintenance. energy and service costs than the NBN (as currently planned) ever will, and will never be any more reliable than it is now.

Ahh so it is not possible to upgrade from the nodes? Right...completely different to what I am being told from a tech working for the NBN who actually quite often laughs at the stupidity of the entire thing...he even has a chuckle about his over paid salary...

It surprises me that you don't see the economic logic of doing something right the first time. I think the basic problem here is you simply don't understand why fast internet is so important.. as you say, you think the only purpose it has is porn and illegal downloads.

There is no economic logic when there is a project with no cost benefit analysis and no true estimates on costs with ever changing goal posts. The fact it so far behind already and already heading to be well over budget is rather scary, but hey, what would I know about running a business and knowing what is an economically sound investment. I guess if I had other peoples money to blow I wouldnt give a **** either.

The NBN is a potential gold mine for the government, provided it stays in government hands. Its an investment on so many levels, not a waste of cash at all. If it goes in Abbots direction, its a total waste of billions of dollars.

Potential gold mine? Show me some cost benefits of this goldmine, show me where it will make the 70 billion plus it will cost do this. Where is the CBA that shows us return on investment? Oh wait..thats right there is none.

On my other topic, how do you and others feel about having religion becoming a part of public school again? We are talking about a Jesuit prime minister here, I think in all likelihood there will be at least a partial revival of this. Does that concern anyone else here, or am I alone on this one?

Let's see...20 years ago all schools had R.E/R.I, most children learnt morals, it did ZERO harm to anyone I know. Many teachers I know, including my wife welcome it back in the hope it might help guide some of the things that turn up in classrooms now.

Tell me, what harm did it do you? I would show more concern at how our PM supports full term abortion...

 

[minux]

Just a legit question, is there anywhere in the world that has implemented a nation wide broadband network the same as our current Labor design?

There may be, China? North korea? Venezuela? Funnily enough they also have government controlled internet and they only let you see what they want you to see. Most other countries rely on private investment to provide such services. I guess when you have an Emily lister and fabian as pm that is the goal anyway.

 

[DAKSTER]

Let's see...20 years ago all schools had R.E/R.I, most children learnt morals, it did ZERO harm to anyone I know. Many teachers I know, including my wife welcome it back in the hope it might help guide some of the things that turn up in classrooms now.

Tell me, what harm did it do you? I would show more concern at how our PM supports full term abortion...

Not going to bother with the NBN debate. Flogging a dead horse gets no extra results regardless of how long you flog it for. If you aren't going to be convinced, far be it from me to argue with you.


Why does religion in schools bother me? Because I, like the majority of Australians, don't believe we should be teaching fairy tales in school as if they were facts.

A large proportion of the population nominally identifies with a religion, on the basis that their family comes from that background. When I was younger, I used to tick the German Lutheran box, as my family descends from those roots. I didn't see the harm in it, it just said 'what religion are you' and I ticked the box on the one I had always been told I was. I didn't believe in God then and I don't now.

Were you however to take a poll (hey there's an idea, I might do exactly that) you will find that most Australians, including many churchgoers, see religion as a community and moral stance rather than an actual belief in some mystical deity. I don't have a problem with decent morals, but I don't feel the need to identify with a religion to prove it.

Many churchgoers are there for one reason, and one only. Because they feel that it implies some kind of honesty or decent morals, and that it can be of benefit to them for business, career or social reasons.

It scares me because we have finally managed to get these fairy tales out of public schools, and it would be a huge backward step to bring them back.

Perhaps some kind of education in morals, ethics, and basic financial principles would be acceptable and worthy, but attach the word God to it and it loses all credibility.

 

[Reaper]

Soooo, Graham Richardson (amongst others) have called for Australia to raise the GST. I personally prefer the idea of low taxing small government however if we need more money, an across the board tax rise for everybody seems like the most equitable way of doing it. The one thing that most commentators seem to forget (Richo included!) is that raising the GST is near impossible. In order to change the rate, we need approval from both the upper and lower houses of federal parliament, like any other piece of legislation, plus the legislation must pass from the upper (if they have one) and lower houses of all the states as well! I just can't see 6 governments committing political suicide all simultaneously unless something catastrophic happened. Further, as the funds go directly to state governments, why would any federal government chop their own heads off for no return to themselves?

But..... There is an out. It will also be unpopular but extending the GST to include all items could happen with a (Relatively) simple regulation change. It would have the advantage of fixing any number of anomalies in the system - eg a cold chook being gst free but a hot roast chook being subject to GST. Another being when you buy the individual ingredients to a cake GST free however if you buy a premade one at coles, you pay the tax. Not to mention the supposed "gst free" rent on domestic housing. Although the final rent paid is GST free, all the inputs to that are subject to the tax which means the end renter does indeed pay a significant amount in GST although at a reduced rate.

 

[vr94ss]

Just a legit question, is there anywhere in the world that has implemented a nation wide broadband network the same as our current Labor design?

Have a look at Fiber to the premises by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia you'll see we are not alone. Some are Gov, some are private some are both. It could have been built privately in Au but telstra would not play nice, the only way to do it was route around them.

Edit: You might also find this site interesting. He is not associated with the NBNco. http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-are-we-paying-for-it/

 

[vr94ss]

again, deficit means you spent more than you made. It is a loss. You must fund a deficit either from capital reserves or from borrowing money.

Please someone tell me what the deficit is paying for that is so important to Australia that we need to borrow money to pay for it ......and pay interest on those borrowings that becomes money we cannot then spend on education or health.

Have a look at Deficit spending - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and read both sides views. Remember our currency is fiat money. After that you could then read the link I posted earlier http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...he-Federal-Government-s-budget-to-a-Household and you may be able to understand why National spending is not the same as State or household budgets.

 

[minux]

Soooo, Graham Richardson (amongst others) have called for Australia to raise the GST. I personally prefer the idea of low taxing small government however if we need more money, an across the board tax rise for everybody seems like the most equitable way of doing it. The one thing that most commentators seem to forget (Richo included!) is that raising the GST is near impossible. In order to change the rate, we need approval from both the upper and lower houses of federal parliament, like any other piece of legislation, plus the legislation must pass from the upper (if they have one) and lower houses of all the states as well! I just can't see 6 governments committing political suicide all simultaneously unless something catastrophic happened. Further, as the funds go directly to state governments, why would any federal government chop their own heads off for no return to themselves?

But..... There is an out. It will also be unpopular but extending the GST to include all items could happen with a (Relatively) simple regulation change. It would have the advantage of fixing any number of anomalies in the system - eg a cold chook being gst free but a hot roast chook being subject to GST. Another being when you buy the individual ingredients to a cake GST free however if you buy a premade one at coles, you pay the tax. Not to mention the supposed "gst free" rent on domestic housing. Although the final rent paid is GST free, all the inputs to that are subject to the tax which means the end renter does indeed pay a significant amount in GST although at a reduced rate.

In all honesty, I'd love to see GST around the 17-20% mark...however, with one major change, all income taxes scrapped. This would mean each and every person would pay their fair share of tax through purchases based on what they spend. There is no fairer system.

I know back in 2006 or 2007 KPMG were commissioned by the Libs to do an analysis on this, it come out that at 17% GST they would gather more income than from income taxes as it would remove the costs associated with personal tax returns etc. I will see my sister in law who was one of the ones on it to see if I can get some better details.