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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

DAKSTER

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If this problem is as prevalent and results from the abuse of corporal punishment as you suggest, then strange, is it not, that I, and many others, successfully negotiated many years (in my case, thirteen) of schooling in the public system during the 50's and 60's, during which corporal punishment was in vogue, without ever once being molested/abused/assaulted by anybody in authority? So I won't agree that one necessarily leads to the other.

Like many of my ilk, I copped a caning for transgressions, only in my final year managing to avoid such foolishness. Didn't turn me into an abuser/basher/kiddy-fiddler. Didn't affect any friends who went through school with me either. Nor did any of us suffer any adverse affects that resulted in antisocial or criminal behaviour as adults, either.

Those of you who perpetrate the theories that corporal punishment is archaic and cruel have failed utterly to arrive at appropriate and effective alternatives. Juvenile crime, including levels of violence within school grounds during school hours, are at levels we never could have dreamt of in our youth. The severity of some crimes, such as shooting another student with a crossbow, knifing another student to death, gang bashings, igniting the hair of a mentally disadvantaged girl while others filmed the event with their phone cameras.....need I continue? What effective deterrents have your theorists and practitians arrived at to prevent or reduce the incidence of such aggression? Suspension? Transfer to another school? Expulsion? Tsk tsk....so great a threat to the miscreant.

To prove that it IS possible for the govt and opposition to agree on stuff if they only stopped squabbling.. I am as far removed from Calaber as they come politically, but I agree with every word of this. Some things are beyond politics.

Any govt, or opposition for that matter, is supposed to work toward what the majority want. The majority of people in this discussion, and virtually any group of people you speak to, all agree that a total lack of discipline has removed any kind of respect that current teenagers may ever have had for authority or basic moral behaviour.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Change the laws.
 

heyitsEnricoPallazzo

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Sorry did, I accuse anyone of advocating fatal beatings or sexual abuse? that would be no.

extrapolate sexual abuse from corporal punishment is wrong? plenty of first hand evidence from that in catholic schools im afraid.

If you were to see a parent disiplining his or her child would you then accuse them of sexual abuse? This is a reasonable conclusion given your reasoning.

Is it any wonder people in general are frightened to react in anyway when they see something wrong? When you have people with no scruples whatsoever deal in blantant equivocation and fear.

I would ask you Torch what you consider wrong (as apposed to illegal) and also how to deal with a wayward child in a way which will benefit
the child and society?
 

minux

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I would ask you Torch what you consider wrong (as apposed to illegal) and also how to deal with a wayward child in a way which will benefit
the child and society?

commsirac would tax them and claim the discipline is causing MMGW.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/05/3182679.htm?section=justin

LULZ, i guess the nbn is not going well.

On top of that you have this:
Hinting the firms were seeking to "price gouge" the project, the NBN's head of corporate services Kevin Brown said all the received quotes were overpriced in the "double digits".
 

Reaper

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^^^^ ORLY?? Who'd have thought that could possibly happen??? Ahhh that's right - this was the government that rolled out such stellar successes as the Home insulation scheme, green loans scheme, sending money to expat's and dead people plus the BER. Not to forget the programmatic specificity of computers in schools, fuel watch and grocery watch. Can anybody tell me one single recommendation from the Australia 20/20 summit that has been implemented?

Anybody who seriously thinks this government could possibly deliver the NBN project at anything close to budget is kidding themselves. An open question - there is only 2 answers to this. If you had to bed you and your families life on this project, would you choose "government to deliver NBN at 5% above budget or less" or "government to deliver NBN at more than 5% over budget or never deliver it at all".

Reaper
 

Calaber

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To prove that it IS possible for the govt and opposition to agree on stuff if they only stopped squabbling.. I am as far removed from Calaber as they come politically, but I agree with every word of this. Some things are beyond politics.

Any govt, or opposition for that matter, is supposed to work toward what the majority want. The majority of people in this discussion, and virtually any group of people you speak to, all agree that a total lack of discipline has removed any kind of respect that current teenagers may ever have had for authority or basic moral behaviour.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Change the laws.

Dakster

We may be opposites politically, but you have illustrated that there is common ground; perhaps more than you realise. I said earlier that I was prepared to give Rudd a go, because I acknowledged Howard had reached the end of his personal acceptance by the electorate and his poor handling of Workchoices. He gave a lot of ammunition to the Labor movement and paid the price. Rudd, however, proved to be an abject failure as a national leader, so we ended up with somebody even worse.

Whilst I don't agree with most Labor policies, my chief problem is the fact that this Labor government has failed to convince me (and perhaps, a much larger proportion of the electorate since the last election), that it has any idea of how to deal with most of the issues confronting it. None of its policies have been completed - most of the "fresh ideas" Rudd brought with high now lie dormant, half completed or abandoned. Commendable programs, which illustrated the Liberals' failing to address education infrastructure, were utterly mismanaged from day one, to the taxpayer's cost. Despite plenty of evidence of this from the earliest stages of the programs, Gillard particularly denied that the problems existed. Her bald faced declaration to the entire nation regarding the carbon tax during the election is a terrible indictment on her as a person and particularly as a national leader. Endless spending on temporary accommodation for increasing numbers of boat people, without any solution to the problem, is costing the nation dearly.

How much longer must this waste go on? If the programs were effectively managed and I could see the end results justified the means, political preference would not come into the discussion - I would support the programs. Labor simply has failed to convince me that it is capable of running this country properly. I would love to see how Hawke and Keating would have dealt with the current issues - I'm confident they would have left this crowd for dead.
 
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minux

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DAKSTER

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In Hawke and Keatings day, their oppositions were far less intransigent (cant have a Keating reference without using that word lol). Sure they opposed each other, but there was substantially more genuine cooperation between the opposing parties than is displayed by the idiots of today.

To me, it seems that the opposition is automatically opposing things, just because they are the opposition. Thats not politics, its just plain obstructionism.

I am bitterly disappointed that all the fine words coming out of everyones mouths when they were trying to woo the independents turned out to be a total waste of time. The independents havent been honest or consistent. Labour it seems had no 'core promises' at all this time, as they havent kept any. Tony Abbot, the instant the independents didnt choose him, reverted to the same obstructionist moron that he has always been.
Bob Browns high and mighty principles it appears are also highly flexible, depending on what he needs on the day.

There is little ideological difference between labour and liberal these days. Left and Right are now both varying shades of Middle. These people have no interest in political ideology. When they start their political career, I believe they often choose whichever party seems the strongest at the time if possible. They have no interest in 'left' and 'right' because there basically is no difference between them these days.
From the instant a govt goes into opposition, it automatically ensures that its policies are the direct opposite of whatever the other party supports. This applies even if their previous policy was in line with the current govt.

When govts are running for election, they leap on the current issues as you would expect. They check out the polls, decide which is the populist view. They form policies and try to sell them to you. They may or may not intend keeping them, but so long as you elect them, thats all that matters. In the end, they will either give up on the good stuff they had intended doing ( because whoever is in opposition strives to make it as impossible as they can for the govt in power to achieve anything ) or they revert to a completely different action than promised, once elected.

Julia Gillard is Prime Minister in name only. She has no control. The Carbon Tax has returned because to not return it is political suicide of a much more urgent nature than the next election. Bob Brown wants the Carbon Tax. Bob Brown will soon control the senate. Thats why we are getting it.

Its the modern style of politics, where the good of the country is no longer relevant. A bunch of ########s behaving like schoolkids with the teacher absent, thats what we have both for govt and opposition. They are both only interested in discrediting each other, so they can hopefully get their jobs next time around. Yes, its always been so, but to nothing like the extent it is now. Thats not good for the country at all.

Until the next senate elections, I guess both parties will have to get used to Prime Minister Bob Brown. Thats also not good for the country at all :(
 

Calaber

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You see - we DO agree on quite a lot. I can't fault your logic or comments there, either. Yes, Abbott is just opposing the Government because all he says is "it's a bad government and a bad tax." Where's the initiative, the alternative policies, the "vision", that Australians want, to genuinely address today's problems and set the country on the right road for the future? Labor says they have it, the Opposition says they don't and the media takes whichever side it has traditionally. The Opposition has failed to offer anything to the electorate, because Abbott is not the person they need to lead the party and government. I don't know who is on the Liberal side, but as you point out, Gillard isn't the leader either. Despite their negativeness, the Opposition is making inroads into the Government's support, though I suspect that the Government is losing support through their own ineptitude and arrogance, rather than through the actions of the Libs. Conversely, despite her falling personal popularity with the voter, Gillard remains preferred PM over Abbott. What a bloody mess.

This is not the Federal Government that either Liberal or Labor voters wanted back in August. It's a bastardised arrangement that rides on the egos of a few misbegotten "independents" and a dangerously empowered third party, that only garnered around 12% of the primary vote last year.
 

minux

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You see - we DO agree on quite a lot. I can't fault your logic or comments there, either. Yes, Abbott is just opposing the Government because all he says is "it's a bad government and a bad tax." Where's the initiative, the alternative policies, the "vision", that Australians want, to genuinely address today's problems and set the country on the right road for the future? Labor says they have it, the Opposition says they don't and the media takes whichever side it has traditionally. The Opposition has failed to offer anything to the electorate, because Abbott is not the person they need to lead the party and government. I don't know who is on the Liberal side, but as you point out, Gillard isn't the leader either. Despite their negativeness, the Opposition is making inroads into the Government's support, though I suspect that the Government is losing support through their own ineptitude and arrogance, rather than through the actions of the Libs. Conversely, despite her falling personal popularity with the voter, Gillard remains preferred PM over Abbott. What a bloody mess.

This is not the Federal Government that either Liberal or Labor voters wanted back in August. It's a bastardised arrangement that rides on the egos of a few misbegotten "independents" and a dangerously empowered third party, that only garnered around 12% of the primary vote last year.

Calaber, Tony started out with new policies etc. Problem we saw was that media outlets were bagging **** out of him (as well as Labor) because of budgetary issues. Now, last I checked they were in opposition so access to treasury is limited. How do you come up with attempted budgeted policy without this access? How do you come up with policy when the government IN POWER are treating the opposition like they are in power? How do you do it when the media do the same?

He has no choice but to call out the government because anything that is said is scrutinised much much more than the party in power<sic>.
 
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