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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

c2105026

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Rich families should have to pay to attend public schools, report says

Just stumbled across that. Are people freakin' high?

I cannot fathom on what planet charging people a different out of pocket charge for the EXACT same service based on income makes sense!

I mean, I know that tax already does this effectively, but this sort of thing is just plain bizarre.

Maybe when I go and by my groceries the prices of everything in my shopping should be indexed based on my income?

Apparently in Finland it was the case traffic fines were indexed due to income. Makes a bit of sense, $200 fine for a student could be crippling, but a $200 fine for a billionaire would not register a blip.

Anyway......whilst I do support a progressive taxation system, one mustn't get carried away and tax the wealthy into oblivion. Just doesn't make sense, is illogical. To have say a top tax rate of say 85%, as some countries have had, is silly. And I say that as a staunch leftie.

It also irritates me when people say 'don't fund private schools with taxpayer money'. This argument is rarely thought through. No funding for private schools means most will close because the required much-higher fees will drive people away. Then the public system which doesn't have a lot of fat in it will be overloaded. That being said some capital expenditure for private schools can be a bit silly sometimes. I don't see why a private school should get a govt funded aquatic centre, whilst the public school has 1/3 of their rooms as demountables.

That being said, going to a public school or private school is no real change in educational outcome, looking at a child-by-child basis. I have taught in both, albeit briefly, and have seen kids succeed and fail in both. Much is to be said for attitude, natural ability and basic support from home regarding education and discipline.
 
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Jesterarts

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Your last paragraph, agree 100%.
 

c2105026

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Sorry folks, commission of audit seems to have lost the plot here regarding healthcare. Epic fail.

Families should pay $15 to see a doctor: Audit Commission | News.com.au

Basically the rich get slugged up the ying yang, and it's not much better for anyone else. Basically it's loking to be the end of medicare. Arise the (Old) US healthcare system!

I wouldn't worry too much. Can't see that plan getting up politically. I'd view this report as the baseball bat and expect a very much watered down version of approx 30% to actually get up thus the public feel "better". Politics 101 :). Howard did the same when he got in before Costello's first budget, as did Rudd with the Henry review (although he ####ed it up and did near zero of what was recommended there!)
 

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The problem for the government is that they have to do something and can't afford to wimp out on making really harsh and unpopular decisions. Nobody can expect the situation to continue as it is at present and assume that all will work out well, without some serious pain. That pain has to be spread around within the community as it best can be, with higher income earners naturally attracting higher imposts than low paid people. We have become too complacent and too well cared for by government largess over the last couple of decades and the younger generations have never known anything different.

I know that I won't like quite a few things that this Budget could contain, but I didn't vote for the Coalition because I hate Labor, or because I like Abbott (who is still not my preferred PM). I voted that way because I was concerned at the direction this country had taken and I want it fixed. I reckon a lot of people voted that way for the same reason. It can't be fixed by waving a magic wand or just adding water. The spending has to stop and things we like having provided by the government now will have to be sacrificed. That's the harsh reality this government faces.

Some of the proposals that have been floated suck. The deficit levy/tax is a stupid idea, because it destroys the government's credibility and won't fix the deficit. It's an extremely unpopular idea that would be tougher to implement politically than some of the more severe suggestions put forward in the Audit Report, and I don't understand why they would even consider such a tax, instead of taking up some of those Audit suggestions. I think that, if they implement that tax, they will provide the Opposition with more ammunition than Gillard ever did, and could become a one-term wonder.
 

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The problem for the government is that they have to do something and can't afford to wimp out on making really harsh and unpopular decisions. Nobody can expect the situation to continue as it is at present and assume that all will work out well, without some serious pain. That pain has to be spread around within the community as it best can be, with higher income earners naturally attracting higher imposts than low paid people. We have become too complacent and too well cared for by government largess over the last couple of decades and the younger generations have never known anything different.

I know that I won't like quite a few things that this Budget could contain, but I didn't vote for the Coalition because I hate Labor, or because I like Abbott (who is still not my preferred PM). I voted that way because I was concerned at the direction this country had taken and I want it fixed. I reckon a lot of people voted that way for the same reason. It can't be fixed by waving a magic wand or just adding water. The spending has to stop and things we like having provided by the government now will have to be sacrificed. That's the harsh reality this government faces.

Some of the proposals that have been floated suck. The deficit levy/tax is a stupid idea, because it destroys the government's credibility and won't fix the deficit. It's an extremely unpopular idea that would be tougher to implement politically than some of the more severe suggestions put forward in the Audit Report, and I don't understand why they would even consider such a tax, instead of taking up some of those Audit suggestions. I think that, if they implement that tax, they will provide the Opposition with more ammunition than Gillard ever did, and could become a one-term wonder.

You are correct that the deficit levy doesn't fix a structural problem however it does provide cheap (aka free) cashflow for the government until savings on the expenditure side flow thru, and the "normal" revenue side catches up. Whilst I detest the idea, especially when there were soooo many reasons why we didn't need to be in this position to begin with, sadly I think it will happen and resigned to the fact that yet again my family is going to have to kick in to pay for the previous administrations' screw ups.

As for raising the pension age - meh. I see it as inevitable. I didn't have a problem with raising it to 67 and 70 is not considered super old any more (and I am in the age group that will have to retire at 70 according to media reports).

From what I understand, the pension age is a fete-de-comple and has been announced as such by Abbott/Hockey. Everything else is pure speculation and all will be revealed in a few weeks.
 

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what I cannot understand is
why would they want to waste money on other sectors for no gain only to then have the rest cop it.

this whole PPL is a prime example
im sorry but you should not be given money to go have a kid.
if you cannot save up enough having some future planning then you shouldn't be paid whatever it is to have a child.
then go look at schools, so will there be enough spaces at schools for these kids in the future?
the flow on effect can inevitably be quite large.

I do understand it was probably for an image point of view.

would love to see some of these politicians also take some cuts of their own to show that they are willing to do so.
was reading somewhere yesterday that back in I think the 30s James Scullin, then prime minster, took a 10% pay cut.
I mean nowadays that may not be much, but even just to show some of these initiatives would be great.
would be interesting how much past and present Politicians do cost taxpayers each year with everything included.
 

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That being said, going to a public school or private school is no real change in educational outcome, looking at a child-by-child basis. I have taught in both, albeit briefly, and have seen kids succeed and fail in both. Much is to be said for attitude, natural ability and basic support from home regarding education and discipline.

But you do end up with a broader social network and a bit of nepotism by knowing someone goes a long way .

BTW I didn't go to a private school but know many who did and have seen the 'I know such'n'such ' at work.

and as for income tax , there should be no brackets.

The first 20-25k tax free then 25 or 30% tax for all , that way people would pay and not avoid.
 

c2105026

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But you do end up with a broader social network and a bit of nepotism by knowing someone goes a long way .

BTW I didn't go to a private school but know many who did and have seen the 'I know such'n'such ' at work.

and as for income tax , there should be no brackets.

The first 20-25k tax free then 25 or 30% tax for all , that way people would pay and not avoid.

True, there is the opportunity to network in a private setting, but if you are willing to live outside your own comfort zone every now and then you'd be surprised who you might meet. But due to smaller population it's easier to do in a rural city......
For the 'I know such and such' crowd - if they are at the same station in life as the 'i don't know such and such' crowd therefore knowing 'such and such' may not have been such a benefit. lol ;)

For most fulltime workers, tax as % of total salary is anywhere from 10% to 30%. 30% seems like a lot but a $180,000 worker still takes home $125,000/yr under the current system, from where I sit yes, you do pay a lot of tax, but it's still a crapload of disposable income, an amount most would never dream of getting.

As long as tax is being paid, people will figure out a way to avoid it and minimise it.
 

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True, there is the opportunity to network in a private setting, but if you are willing to live outside your own comfort zone every now and then you'd be surprised who you might meet. But due to smaller population it's easier to do in a rural city......
For the 'I know such and such' crowd - if they are at the same station in life as the 'i don't know such and such' crowd therefore knowing 'such and such' may not have been such a benefit. lol ;)

For most fulltime workers, tax as % of total salary is anywhere from 10% to 30%. 30% seems like a lot but a $180,000 worker still takes home $125,000/yr under the current system, from where I sit yes, you do pay a lot of tax, but it's still a crapload of disposable income, an amount most would never dream of getting.

As long as tax is being paid, people will figure out a way to avoid it and minimise it.

You don't see that $60k a year is a huge contribution for 1 person to make to the running of the country?? That doesn't take into account taxes paid on GST, stamp duties, etc etc etc that they pay on the disposable part of their income.

My personal opinion is that the top line of income tax should be in line with both company and tax on trusts which really makes no incentive what so ever for individuals to avoid tax via elaborate schemes.

Also, in general, the lower both income and company taxes are, the more incentive the best and brightest people have to come and work in Australia, plus attract companies to operate here utilizing these people. To some extent it's a bit of Reaganomics where low taxes stimulate economic activity where govco receive income via GST and other tax receipts from that growth.
 
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