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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by minux, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. Jarp

    Jarp Surely You Jest

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    Meh...there are 10 of thousands of new arrivals coming into this country every year and 10,000 of new citizenships granted every year. We've got vastly more illegal immigrants in this county who are arriving by plane and overstaying visas than people arriving by boats. 10,000 in 4 years is a drop in the ocean and compared to European countries our refugee intake is negligible. Get over the selfish, protectionist liberalist dribble and open your eyes to the reality of modern life on this planet.


    Sorry yes...a boat prolly did come in in the last few days. But it was detected...the security of our borders are fine! Unless you believe we should just sink them on site? When did the last Visa overstay occur?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  2. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    OK. So we can send them to live with you. You can cloth them, feed them and put a roof over your heads at your expense. Since you don't have a problem with illegal immigrants. YOU deal with them!
     
  3. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

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    *sigh*

    Those who come by plane are known. Generally those who come by plane are also not being funded to stay by tax payers. Those coming by plane can also be identified easily as their documents arent thrown overboard mid flight.

    My eyes are very much open, open to how much these people get over our own citizens. When we fix the homeless problem here, then, maybe we can accept those wanting to come here illegally. I do love though how it is me who is sprouting dribble when you obviously have zero life experience with these people.

    Keep going though, it must be brilliant living the way you do, where can I buy a set of your blinkers or is it something only issued in canberra?
     
  4. Jarp

    Jarp Surely You Jest

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    Well that's just a tad silly. I don't have a problem with living in a nation that provides protection to all people be they citizens or not. Nor do I have a problem with living in a welfare state that looks after our elderly, disabled or those unable to find work. One day you may well find yourself in a position that sees you struggling a bit and you will be glad that these resources are available to you. But if you'd prefer we can just lay the boot in if this would make you feel better about things.
     
  5. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    You really don't get it. So sad that people are so deluded.

    I will never struggle because I set myself up to be able to be self funded in the event of being unable to work, through various insurances and incomes. Why should I also pay to house, clothe and feed people who come to my country illegally?
     
  6. Jesterarts

    Jesterarts Your freedom ends where mine begins

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    Err... huh? How exactly is is manipulative to call something by it's name?

    To call them refugee's is manipulative since until they have been acknowledged to be legitimate refugee's all we know is that they are people who have arrived by boat.

    "Boat people" strikes me as the LEAST manipulative language to describe these people.

    Actually if you refer to here:
    Boat arrivals in Australia since 1976

    Appendix B: Glossary
    Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) and United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) definitions

    Boat people - A term used in the media and elsewhere to describe asylum seekers who arrive by boat or attempt to arrive by boat without authority to enter Australia. DIAC uses the term ‘unauthorised boat arrivals’ or ‘unlawful boat arrivals’.

    Stikes me as Abbott's language is spot on.

    And we do need better border protection, we are a nation surrounded by water yet on a weekly basis we have boats illegally entering our waters and people illegally landing on our soil. That strikes me as a serious security issue.

    2 part question for you based on a hypothetical scenario:

    You get home every day to find your front door wide open and several hobo's chilling on your couch. There is a homeless shelter across a 8 lane freeway road that will accept these people but they didn't quite like it there and prefered to come to your place because it was nicer and there was food in the fridge and you have 2 unused bedrooms.

    1. Would you let them stay since they made the dangerous journey across the freeway and you do have the space?
    2. Would you replace the locks on your front door? (aka improve security)

    Finally, I suggest you look up the definition of the word "paranoia".

    People are not paranoid about 2849 illegal boat people arriving in 2010 because well, 2849 illegal boat people arrived in 2010.

    I'm not paranoid about the number, because it's a fact.
    I'm not paranoid about them being "illegal", because they arrived illegally
    And I'm not paranoid about them being on a boat, because well, they arrived on a boat... :confused:

    What I am concerned about is the fact there is more and more of them arriving since Labor relaxed our border laws.

    In 2007 there was a total of 5 boats and 161 boat people arriving. This was under Howards "tough" laws which all the tree huggers cried about.
    Last year, there was 61 boats and *2849 people under Labors policies.

    I prefered the statistics from the Howard days.

    *Source: Boat arrivals in Australia since 1976
     
  7. HamaTime™

    HamaTime™ VIP Member

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    Rep given minux. ;)

    Great points, exactly my thoughts.
     
  8. Tatiana

    Tatiana Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh dear me. Illegal immigrants are housed and fed using tax payer dollars, some in motels - how nice for them! However I have clients who are Australians - born and raised here - who are homeless, couch surfing and living in cars (most unregistered which opens up a whole new can of worms legally) and told there are not enough resources to find them accommodation.

    Today in SA it has come to light that a suicidal man ended his life on Saturday night after 3 times being refused help at his local hospital when he asked to be voluntarily admitted because our local mental home was closed down and the other facilities are full.

    Can you seriously tell me that is fair? That those who float in illegally on a boat should be housed and fed at tax payers expense while Australians suffer?

    Work with me for a week and I guarantee you will start resenting what illegal people get over your fellow country men.
     
  9. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Ok, I see your reasoning, but why, then, does he have a persistently poor public image and continue to trail the red witch in polling as preferred PM? How can he reverse that situation? Remember, he has to convince a majority of the electorate that he is a better leader, because a lot of idiot Australians vote on the personality of the party leader, not just policies and tangibles.

    When you compare his background and domestic arrangements to Gillard's, he certainly seems to fit the perception of an appropriate leader far more than Gillard. Compare his situation as you have outlined it with hers. She is an atheist, he is strongly religious. She is unmarried, in a de-facto relationship. He is married. She has no kids, he has two adult daughters. She has a socialist/communist/fabian background, his was conservative. Australia is a principally Christian democratic society, so which one is the leader?

    I do think that, if Abbott could be a much more convincing public speaker, his chances would be enhanced. His performances on television during interviews don't do him any favours.
     
  10. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    Well actually he only has to be elected by the majority people in his local electorate. If the Liberal/National Coalition were to win government it wouldn't matter who people want to be the PM. As leader of the Liberal Party, he becomes PM.
     
  11. HamaTime™

    HamaTime™ VIP Member

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    Exactly.

    And there is a big sucker punch for all those Boat People sympathisers. Yes it is important to provide humanitarian aid and care for those in need. But think of it like giving blood, if there a bunch of people with your blood type dying, you can only give as much as possible without you dying. You need to consider yourself (Australia and it's 'legal' citizens) above those coming in illegally.

    Boat people are illegal refugees trying to mooch off Australian kindness and compassion, and tree hugging socialists who want to spend Australia's resources on those who are actually trying to #### us over and screw our system and live off our sweat, then protest that their conditions are terrible. They can go #### themselves.

    Bring back Howard's policies, turn them all back. Tell them to get a visa and try for legal immigration or GTFO.
     
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  12. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

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    If abbott is so on the nose, how is it he has the coalition in a massive 2pp standing? Where did Brendan nelson and Malcolm Turncoat have the party?

    If the media got over themselves the public could see just how Australian and down to earth Mr Abbott is.

    I used to actually dislike the man, right up until I met him a few years back. First time I had ever met a politician who come across sincere and genuine.

    It is just sad there is the rabid out there wanting to attack the man. I mean look at the womans day debacle, he was asked what he would say to his daughters if they asked his advice on sex. He said, like any father he would advise them to wait. He was vilified by the press, womens groups, gillard, rudd etc etc all because he has morals. Where are these same people vilifying men who force women to wear blankets with holes in them outdoors in 45 degree heat? Where are the same people vilifying the communities who enforce FGM.

    For me, Abbotts public speaking is fine, he tends to delay in replying generally because he doesn't have a spin cycle response, generally when asked the question you get the response. Unless of course when you have idiots claiming something was implied that was never the case.

    Just curious, what charities does Julia go and work for? How many weeks a year does Julia give up to spend in aboriginal communities? How does Julia advocate a fit lifestyle? How long has Julia been supporting volunteer surf lifesaving? How many politician bike ride fundraisers has Julia done?

    At the end of the day, Tony is a genuine Australian who helps others and is vilified constantly by the left for helping the community and being bloody honest. Julia could certainly take a few pages out of his book...
     
  13. HamaTime™

    HamaTime™ VIP Member

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    110% bang on.
     
  14. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Well, thank you for explaining how the electoral system works in Australia. I would never have known that.

    Read my post again. I'm sure it wasn't that difficult to understand. I said that a "lot of idiot Australian's vote on the personality of the leader". They might not know or care who their local representatives are - if they don't like the national leader of a party, they don't vote for that party. Abbott still trails Gillard as preferred PM. Why? and what can Abbott do to reverse that situation, so that his personal popularity has less influence on the negative vote?
     
  15. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Minux

    Again, I agree with much of what you say. I remember using that example of the Womans Day about mid 2010 on this forum when Gillard tried to turn Abbott's statements in the magazine into Abbott telling Australian women what to do with their bodies - about as foul a distortion as one could imagine. I think it's obvious to a lot of people now that Gillard is a blatant liar and an extremely dishonest person.

    Regarding Abbott's achievements in improving the 2pp vote for Liberals, I would like to think it was all his doing, but surely Labor's performance has had a great deal to do with that too? Labor stinks to high heaven at present and Gillard sits on top of a very rancid pile of dung. I suspect the proverbial "drovers dog" might do well against her if an election was held right now.

    Abbott has to improve that preferred PM standing. I just don't know how he can get it up from its present level, unless Gillard so totally shits in her nest that the people who stand by her suddenly walk away.
     
  16. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

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    Calaber, look at the results of the polls. Liberals were dead and buried until he come on board. He basically forced Rudd out of office with the ETS crap. I think Abbott misses a lot of credit on what he has prevented.

    One thing that could be Abbotts downfall but a positive for Australia is Gillard ousted and replaced with someone like smith. Another man with integrity who does his job well. I think if someone like he took the reigns, Liberals would be in trouble providing he dumped these stupid tax policies eg Carbon dioxide tax, Floody Tax, mining tax etc.
     
  17. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    And with the ADFA ****, he's already positioning himself well damn it!
     
  18. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Dead right, but the NSW debacle for Labor showed the dangers of frequent, uneclected leadership changes within the ALP, so would they dare go there within this term?
     
  19. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

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    I do not think they have a choice. Gillard is a dead quack walking.

    I am wondering if Rudd will cause a stir by either quitting or challenging for power so she is ousted before her 12 months is up so she misses out on all the benefits...
     
  20. Jarp

    Jarp Surely You Jest

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    Those who come by plane are known. Generally those who come by plane are also not being funded to stay by tax payers. Those coming by plane can also be identified easily as their documents arent thrown overboard mid flight
    Is true, they are known. Are there passports and papers genuine? Have they got on there plane to go home again? If not, where are they? There are so many other border issues to be concerned about that a mere 10,000 refugees (that we have quarantined, which is good) is again a drop in the ocean. It's a molehill waiting to be Abbotised into the proverbial mountain.

    I have clients who are Australians - born and raised here
    Are they of Aboriginal decent or prodginy of immigrants?

    when he asked to be voluntarily admitted because our local mental home was closed down and the other facilities are full.
    Why is this mans despair any more or less important than the next mans? Can you split compassion? Your understanding of compassion I'm afraid differs from mine.

    Why should I also pay to house, clothe and feed people who come to my country illegally?
    I'm glad that you've been able to set yourself up well having been living in Australia as it is a sensationly lucky place to be living at the moment. If you are
    perfectly healthy and able to maintain a job etc then'd you'd have to be a complete berk to not be doing OK right..? Have to ask dude but would you prefer
    we flog them and ship them back in shipping containers? Should we do that with your Uncle Tom from NZ if he overstays his visa too? What about those doing it
    hard, the battler. They are more likely to be of immigrant lineage, lets pack them lazy ####s back off to their orgins too hey!? One of these immigrants may one day
    save your life when your a lonely old bastard decaying away within your investments?

    This stuffs to draining.
     

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