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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

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ya mum!
what they should have done was make promises they could keep. a smart politician would have made promises based on the facts they had at the time.

That's exactly what they did! Based on the information they had at the time, they made promises they thought they were going to be able to keep. Truth is, exactly how bad the situation was/is was very well hidden by the ALP.

I find this hard to excuse and so do many other voters - and the budget was abbott's "gillard" moment and it will haunt him on polling day.

You're wrong there. This is the first step in a process that will bring the ridiculous waste and debt back under control. The flow on effect will mean things look VERY VERY good coming polling day in 2016. And BS won't have anything of substance to offer other than a track record of waste, record debt and incompetence.
 

Reaper

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Watched Richo on tele this morning, discussing the poor job the government has done with the budget and the difficult job they have trying to convince Australians that it's fair and just (and saying that they have a virtually impossible job succeeding). I like his reporting because I consider him to be less biased and more forthright than many other commentators. The fact that he is a former Labor minister, who doesn't have an axe to grind (unlike Latham, for example), and is well regarded within political and media circles, tends to add weight and credibility to his comments IMO. And I happen to agree with him comments regarding the budget for the most part.

After dealing with that, two other matters came up.

The first was the media attention being given to Margie and the daughter with the degree. Richo is of the opinion that both matters are not necessary or deserving of the criticism that has been given out, citing examples of the work Margie does for various charity organisations as a counter to the criticism she has been copping. He then added that the person who raised the issue of Margie's "non-contribution" was Tim Matheson, who should just shut up and stay out of sight, as he wasn't too bright and nothing to write home about ( basically Richo's statement, not just my words).

Then our girl-friend, Sarah Hansen Young got a mention. He described her as "militarily stupid", then just "stupid". Not sure what "militarily stupid" means, but perhaps "profoundly stupid"?

Richo, you are my pal. Three out of three.

I've gotta say, even though I often disagree with him, Richo is a pisser and by far the most entertaining political commentator out there.

what they should have done was make promises they could keep. a smart politician would have made promises based on the facts they had at the time. what they essentially did was nothing more than a gamble, based on a incomplete "big" picture of the country's finances.

I find this hard to excuse and so do many other voters - and the budget was abbott's "gillard" moment and it will haunt him on polling day.

I think you will find the LNP argue they did make the promises based on the information they had at hand at the time but when they got full access to treasury things were different (as they usually are).

On the subject of political promises in general though, it's very much a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation though. Don't make a promise and that becomes the story with the other side going nuts with a scare campaign. Make a promise and you get this (along with no end of scare campaigns anyway). This happens for both sides no matter what and to some extent the public/media (and political opponents) need to take some responsibility here by dissecting *everything* senior politicians say and looking for every angle possible to turn any given statement into something that was never intended. Once again that happens to both sides.

I do think the LNP did make some stupid promises at the time which were going to be difficult to keep. Outright lies?? Nope (and I'm one of the few that don't think Gillard lied over the Carbon tax thing). Broken promise - entirely. In this case I do think there is a compelling case (national interest) to break said promises which wasn't the case with Gillard and the carbon tax (keeping her arse in the lodge!)
 

Jesterarts

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Young and without work? Take up fruit picking, says Liberal senator Eric Abetz

Sweet Jesus the poll result under that article is alarming. Essentially, it turns out we live in a society that believes that someone who can't be bothered working is entitled to the money I earn working my arse off.

So effectively, the more I work and the higher my income the more people I can support to remain unemployed. What a strange, strange Country we live in.
 

Calaber

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That's exactly what they did! Based on the information they had at the time, they made promises they thought they were going to be able to keep. Truth is, exactly how bad the situation was/is was very well hidden by the ALP.



You're wrong there. This is the first step in a process that will bring the ridiculous waste and debt back under control. The flow on effect will mean things look VERY VERY good coming polling day in 2016. And BS won't have anything of substance to offer other than a track record of waste, record debt and incompetence.

Sorry, Rajesh, but no.

I'm from your side of the political fence, but the undertakings (ie promises) Abbott made were bloody stupid. He might, in all good conscience, have WANTED to honour them, but he had to know that his promises were simply impossible to keep. He wanted to abolish at least two taxes, he said he would honour the NDIS and Gonski for at least four years, he wanted to introduce a truly idiotic and extremely expensive PPL scheme, he said there would be no new taxes, then tried the most implausible explanation that the high income levy was not a new tax......the list of dumbness is pretty long and it casts doubts in many minds (I suspect more than just a few Coalition supporters too) about his capacity to lead.

Abbott didn't have to make those promises. The Labor/Greens were so badly on the nose, that drover's dog could have won the election just by barking. Instead, Abbott maintained his three key mantra which found resonance with the electorate, then made all those other promises which Blind Freddy knew were impossible to achieve.

So, why did we Conservative voters still vote for him?

Well, speaking for myself, I knew he couldn't do what he promised, but I paid no attention to his promises anyway - I never do at election time. I've seen too much pork-barrelling over the years to give any of it credence these days. I voted for the party that had a history of economic responsibility, and which I knew WOULD stem the flow of asylum seekers. I couldn't believe the sheer incompetence and arrogance of the Gillard government (and Rudd's was no better) and that arrogance is still present with some of the former Ministers who somehow managed to hold their seats in the last election. I also hated the way the unions had managed to re-establish themselves under Gillard's watch and were starting to flex their muscles again.

So far as the budget goes, I suspect that Shorten, the Greens and the PUP will do all they can to obstruct as many policies as they can for political gain, knowing that the budget is deeply unpopular. They will also know that by blocking the budget key points, the government is faced with only two options - go back to the drawing board and come up with a mini-budget that will really be a heavily revised major budget, or call a double dissolution. Abbott threatened to call a DD if the Carbon Tax was blocked, and might even have still thought that way until budget week. Now I reckon he would be very unwilling to take that option, knowing that he and the Government are so unpopular.

Hard work by Coalition members trying to convince the electorate won't be very successful, because so many low income people seem to think that they are carrying more than their fair share of the load, even if that isn't the case. As I have said previously, Abbott has dug a very deep hole for himself, by working the "Gillard Lie" topic so hard for so long, then making unsustainable promises and breaking so many of them in such a short time. I think his credibility is shot to bits and I can see the party being forced to seriously consider a new leader before the next election, if his personal levels of popularity don't pick up as well as the party's.
 

vr94ss

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Watched Richo on tele this morning, discussing the poor job the government has done with the budget and the difficult job they have trying to convince Australians that it's fair and just (and saying that they have a virtually impossible job succeeding). I like his reporting because I consider him to be less biased and more forthright than many other commentators. The fact that he is a former Labor minister, who doesn't have an axe to grind (unlike Latham, for example), and is well regarded within political and media circles, tends to add weight and credibility to his comments IMO. And I happen to agree with him comments regarding the budget for the most part.

After dealing with that, two other matters came up.

The first was the media attention being given to Margie and the daughter with the degree. Richo is of the opinion that both matters are not necessary or deserving of the criticism that has been given out, citing examples of the work Margie does for various charity organisations as a counter to the criticism she has been copping. He then added that the person who raised the issue of Margie's "non-contribution" was Tim Matheson, who should just shut up and stay out of sight, as he wasn't too bright and nothing to write home about ( basically Richo's statement, not just my words).

Then our girl-friend, Sarah Hansen Young got a mention. He described her as "militarily stupid", then just "stupid". Not sure what "militarily stupid" means, but perhaps "profoundly stupid"?

Richo, you are my pal. Three out of three.

I'd have to basically agree with that. SHY is kind hearted but a little naive. I think militarily stupid just means he has no understanding of the military or defence.
 

vr94ss

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That's exactly what they did! Based on the information they had at the time, they made promises they thought they were going to be able to keep. Truth is, exactly how bad the situation was/is was very well hidden by the ALP.

The PEFO introduced by Costello is done by Treasury not the govt in power, ie Labor. You have wishful thinking and excuse making down pat.
 

gopher

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Young and without work? Take up fruit picking, says Liberal senator Eric Abetz

Sweet Jesus the poll result under that article is alarming. Essentially, it turns out we live in a society that believes that someone who can't be bothered working is entitled to the money I earn working my arse off.

So effectively, the more I work and the higher my income the more people I can support to remain unemployed. What a strange, strange Country we live in.

Hockey and abbott have been drumming into us the last couple of weeks that we must all share the pain
Didn't think you were exempt
 

gopher

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That's exactly what they did! Based on the information they had at the time, they made promises they thought they were going to be able to keep. Truth is, exactly how bad the situation was/is was very well hidden by the ALP.

What a load of ****
 

iChris

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Young and without work? Take up fruit picking, says Liberal senator Eric Abetz

Sweet Jesus the poll result under that article is alarming. Essentially, it turns out we live in a society that believes that someone who can't be bothered working is entitled to the money I earn working my arse off.

So effectively, the more I work and the higher my income the more people I can support to remain unemployed. What a strange, strange Country we live in.

it's only understandable that everyone who can work should. however,

I remember watching ABC q&a a while back and this came up. the asker stated that right now in tasmania there are about 19 thousand people (if memory serves me well at the time) looking for jobs and only on average 500 job listings each week. the question then was, what are the other 18 and a half thousand supposed to do if the safety net is removed?

you can't in all honesty say that every one of those 19 thousand people are bludgers. here's the clip if you're interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFZ9116Oqlc

the "earn or learn" statement I think is BS. what's the point of learning if there are potentially a few thousand people with the same qualifications going for only a few jobs? you might as well take up the first dead end job that get's offered to you rather than take a gamble on studying and then potentially not being able to get a job. all that wasted time studying when on the flip side they could be working a full time minimum wage job and paying taxes.

using taxpayer money to pay for joe citizen's study (joe himself said in that clip that taxpayers would fund tafe courses) and then joe not be able to get a job would be considered by most righties on this forum to be wasteful spending - "but why should I pay for their education?" comes to mind and is constantly being thrown about. it's no different than righties who whinge about taxpayer money being spent on university education and then claiming that communist uni students are lazy and greedy. and to then go on and claim what benefits they can (just in order to survive) because they can't get a job would label them as a bludger in the eyes of the right. the right seems to contradict itself just as much as the left.
 
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