JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

Wind turbines are caveman technology they only run between 60% full capacity, so if one puts out a maximum 2.5 mw your loosing 40% of its capabilities so your getting around 1.3 mw on a good day. Nuclear power is the only answer to coal.

 

What about Molten Thorium Salt Reactor as powerplants?

Here is some interesting, have you heard about Bloom Energy Servers? For what I see, looks very promising.

 

BTW "loosing" is not a word. "Losing" is what you're after.

 

Umm. your understanding of the technicalities is not quite accurate.

We've been using wind energy for a long time and still do, think sailing boats/yachts, Dutch windmill for low velocity water pumping and grinding grain etc.

The 60% you're referring to is not the capacity or 'power output' in Watts generated by the turbine, it is the 'energy conversion efficiency'
This is a different specification to instantaneous power output.
Modern wind turbines operate at ~50% conversion efficiency - this means they can convert approximately half of the winds kinetic energy into electrical energy.
This is superior to the average internal combustion engine which has a thermal efficiency of ~20%
Diesel engines have higher thermal efficiency than gasoline of around 35% but also have toxic emissions.

The maximum 'power' output in Watts (W) is determined by the electronics and size of the electrical generator behind the rotor blades and the length/design of the rotor blades.
The electrical power output varies depending on wind velocity, maximum electrical power output is reached when the wind velocity reaches the turbine rotor blades rated maximum RPM.
Then you have 'capacity factor' which is a measure of the average power output over time.

Modern wind turbines also have a 'furling speed' rating, this is the maximum rotor speed achievable before the turbine is shut off to prevent damage.
Significant physical stresses occur with any high velocity turbine/motor rotation, this includes underwater ship propellers and aircraft turbofans, turboprops and turbojets and ICE crankshafts/piston rods.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of any isolated system always increases.
Basically, no energy conversion system we have invented is 100% efficient.

So the challenge and the motivation at this point is to mitigate the negative impacts of our energy needs.

.

 

You can post this video every day if you want, but it will only further diminish your credibility in this discussion.
This video contains ZERO substance, it's all fluff and emotive rhetoric and sensationalist theatre.

This video certainly sums you up....perfectly.

.

 

The claim that wind energy is “green” or “environmentally friendly” is laugh-out-loud hilarious – except for the fact that the reality is not funny at all. Consider just one part of a turbine, the generator, which uses considerable rare earth elements (2000± pounds per MW).

The mining and processing of these metals has horrific environmental consequences that are unacknowledged and ignored by the wind industry and its environmental surrogates. For instance, just the rare earths of a typical 100 MW wind project would generate approximately:

1. 20,000 square meters of destroyed vegetation,
2. 2 million pounds of CO2,
3. 6 million cubic meters of toxic air pollution,
4. 29 million gallons of poisoned water,
5. 600 million pounds of highly contaminated tailing sands, and
6. 280,000 pounds of radioactive waste.
   
   A sweet spot for wind turbines , between 27 and 56 mph. Turbines are now generally in the range of 2-3 MW.
   Below or over they are useless.
   
   How much energy do wind turbines produce?
   Every wind turbine has a range of wind speeds, typically around 30 to 55 mph, in which it will produce at its rated, or maximum, capacity. At slower wind speeds, the production falls off dramatically. If the wind speed decreases by half, power production decreases by a factor of eight. On average, therefore, wind turbines do not generate near their capacity. Industry estimates project an annual output of 30-40%, but real-world experience shows that annual outputs of 15-30% of capacity are more typical.
   
   With a 25% capacity factor, a 2-MW turbine would produce
   
   2 MW × 365 days × 24 hours × 25% = 4,380 MWh = 4,380,000 kWh
   
   in a year.
   
   What is “capacity factor”?
   The capacity factor is the actual output over a period of time as a proportion of a wind turbine or facility’s maximum capacity. For example, if a 1.5-MW turbine generates power over one year at an average rate of 0.5 MW, its capacity factor is 33% for that year
   
   
   How much of the time do wind turbines generate energy?
   Wind turbines generate electrical energy when they are not shut down for maintenance, repair, or tours and the wind is between about 8 and 55 mph. Below a wind speed of around 30 mph, however, the amount of energy generated is very small. Wind turbines produce at or above their average rate around 40% of the time. Conversely, they produce little or no power around 60% of the time.
   
   
   How many homes can a wind turbine power?
   Proponents often express projected output as “enough to power x homes.” According to the Energy Information Agency, the average US household uses 888 kWh per month, or 10,656 kWh per year. An average 1.5-MW turbine (26.9% capacity factor) would produce the same amount of electric energy as that used by almost 332 households over a year.
   
   Can wind turbines help avoid blackouts?
   No. Wind turbines themselves need power from the grid to work. A blackout knocks them out, too. If they were providing power at the time, that loss aggravates the effect of the blackout.
   
   How much back-up power is needed for wind power?
   According to Eon Netz, one of the four grid managers in Germany, with 7,050 MW of wind power capacity installed in its area at the end of 2004, the amount of back-up required was over 80%, which was the maximum output observed from all of their wind power facilities together. That is, for every 10 MW of wind power added to the system in this case, at least 8 MW of back-up power must also be dedicated.
   
   In other words, wind needs 100% back-up of its maximum output.
   

 

You can't build or produce ANYTHING without using multiple types of resources.

The claim of wind energy and solar is that they can produce electricity with zero GHG emissions or any other polluting atmospheric emissions.
That's the claim.
I have already stated that everything we do, build or produce has both positive and negative aspects.

To Start,
Your post is not your own work.
If you're going to straight out 'copy n paste' from windwatch.org you really should credit them with a reference.
I also note you are copying my 'style' of posting and even used one of my unique phrases...I'm flattered but none of your posts or Zero's prove that renewable energy is fake and a scam.
Even if you remove anthropogenic climate change from the equation, we still have atmospheric, water and land pollution and environmental degradation to deal with.

So,
Why are you repeating some of what I've already touched on?
Why are you copy n pasting stuff I already know about?
When did I say that we should go out and only build wind turbine farms and turn everything else off and all is good with the world?
When did I say we should just turn the lights off and go back to hunter gatherers and live in grass huts?
**This is the rhetoric you are trying to paint me with**
And Zero_Tolerance is mostly just down right nasty in his vibe if you happen to disagree with him.

Again:

And further more, regarding your strawman rhetoric that wind turbines are horrific due to the mining of the rare earth metals.
If this is your main argument and concern, you better stop using your computers, mobile phones, video game consoles, TV's, motor vehicles, magnets, lighting and many other consumer and commercial electronic gadgets, gizmos and stuff.
I think there is something like 5 billion mobile phones in the world...ALL using mined minerals, even gold and silver.

Scandium is also a rare earth element..
Did You Know? Most of the scandium used in the United States goes into aluminum-alloy baseball bats and other sports equipment. Scandium is also used in semiconductors and specialty lighting.

Lets not forget the Military (and commercial) uses of these "mined" resources...rare earths used in...night-vision goggles, precision-guided weapons, communications equipment, GPS equipment, batteries, and other defense electronics.

So, if you're oh so angered and concerned about the use of these minerals in wind turbines, you better back yourself up and start living like its 2020BC.

I'm not your enemy.


https://geology.com/articles/rare-earth-elements/

.

 

Here is my take and is short on Wind Power.

Is not constant.
Is not dependable to provide a steady flow of power for the grid, that is why in the US we use NG Generators to pickup the slack on the power demand.

Maintenance Hell.
Each individual Wind Turbine is a single and unique generator on its own. I have seen their gearboxes polluting the ground bellow with gallons of oil from busted seals. Blades suffer from erosion and not easy or cheap to replace. Also, Tech is always changing like cars, so you have Next Gen Generators with no so compatible parts and systems. They are like Brooms, they always sweep really good when they are new.

I get it, we used Wind Power for ages but never used as far I know, Wind Power as multiples sources to be used on one (Power and Demands). What I mean by that, Wind Power powering 1 Ship, but never used thousands of Sails on thousands of Row Boats/Dinghies tied together pulling a Ship and/or several Ships. Also, as far I know, never seen a Water Pump mechanically or electrically connected to a group of local Turbines to pull water from a well, same grinding grains. Is as far I know, 1 Turbine, 1 Application and that is easy to manage. Even with the Sail Boat analogy, 1 sail, 1 person can manage, multiple sails... well that requires some skills and a crew.

One application that seems to be fantastically working through decades are Hydroelectric Powerplants. The only time they stop working is when the water runs out. If you guys get the chance to visit the US, specially Vegas, take the chance to go to the Hoover Dam, is damn terrific (pun intended). Is one of the very few Government sponsored project that not only produce a benefit, also produce its own cash flow to keep the lights on (pun intended). A side note, the project was started by FDR's predecessor, Herbert Hoover that is considered one of the "worse" presidents. I say he was one of the presidents that fought the "swamp".

Anyway..... Is like socialism, works at a Household/Community level but at Gov/Nation level sucks, does not scale well.

 

This is Los Angeles, California. The brown haze in the image above is smog.
Wind turbines or solar panels etc, don't create this toxic air pollution, but we know what does.
Simply trying to make a point, I'm not saying let the fairies build windmills and solar panels and we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya.


This is L.A. before and during the COVID-19 lockdown
ref:
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...d-los-angeles-notorious-smog-2020-4?r=US&IR=T


https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Smog

Toxic smog in Beijing, China
From combustion of fossil fuels


I don't care about left or right wing politics, I don't care which religion is the best religion, I'm sick of our world leaders and wealthy elites dragging everyone else into their wars and greed for more power and money.
I just want to live in a better world where the focus is collective human cooperation for the benefit of all, and the planet we all need to share and live on.

Why is this desire so wrong and cause such friction with some people?
Why do people get beaten down for suggesting we can do better?

.

 

In 30 years time what will the world do with all the end life solar cells plenty of inverters don't last 10 years I see heaps of 5 kw solar systems making 500 watts most of the time. If we only care about making as little pollution as possible are solar cells clean?
What happens to a dead 5 year old cell now? Why does WA want to be able to shut some solar down so it can control the base load voltage.
Since Hazelwood has shut jeeralang power station runs pretty much constantly we have traded coal for natural gas . We want to be green yes but with lets stay with reality which is a lot of solar and wind is unreliable and isn't green when we talk about the total cost to the environment.

 

I cannot comment in China's pollution issues but I can say some about Los Angeles, California.

LA is in the way it is because of the geographical location. The way wind and the mountains are set up is like a bowl that churns the same air, is not diluted like many other cities. The air per se, is dirty by nature with Dust Particulates, of course it looks dirtier than most cities. Now, imagine that you sit in your garage, closed with the engine running, not pleasant, right? So does not matter how clean are the Internal Combustion Engines, the magnitude of vehicles will compound the problem. Because of that, I can see a valid reason to go all Electric, however LA is not the true example of pollution, does not matter what you do, always will have that brown haze. Heck... Volcanoes pollute thousands times more than LA Smog.

Also, photos can be "exaggerated" with the proper lighting and filters. Anybody that is into photography knows that. The Brown Haze is also brown/golden because of the sun position. What about Fog, can create the same effect that will look just like smoke and/or smog.

Seoul, Korea, specially in the winter when is cold and the air is denser, the air has this constant Diesel smell, is nasty. They use a cylindrical shaped brick that seems to be a mix of Charcoal with Diesel, used to fire their Ondol Heating systems. Ondol Heating is a dangerous and effective idea. Can keep a place nice and warm at a nice and even temperature when is set right. The drawbacks, hard to control the temp and CO poisoning if they leak.

The Ondol Charcoal/Diesel fuel kind of looks like this.

 

the answer is so clean clear n simple even to a cockroach, look up in the sky, its the worlds biggest FREE nuclear power plant, when that shuts down, well we can all bend over and kiss our assgoodbye.

 

And a good part of that energy is deflected and filtered by the Van Allen Belt. As is right now, with present tech, Solar Power is not a cost effective solution to provide you with 100%+ power needs. How come nobody talks about how the Solar Panels came about, how they are build, the labor and Carbon Footprint that took to make them (in China?)? Might as well get rig of all your gadgets and go all mechanical and manual, proven tech that lasted thousands of years. Why even need Nuclear, lets use Sail Ships, using free nonpolluting energy, right? Make sure they are not made with Carbon Fiber, that is cheating

 

For 1 I'm not taking a dig at anyone or pointed my facts from google to cause a argument.
Those before and after shots are nice but at what time of year did these photos take place? If they were in the same month as the year before with the same conditions then its 100% before and after, i can take a photo of Melbourne one day ant its very hazy a week later its clear.

Points about wind turbines in the statement you made about burning brown coal to spinning wind turbines is silly, how much damage did it take to make a wind turbine? You cant build these things using renewable energy, coal is the only product that can get hotter enough to make steel so to create them u need coal.

To keep a wind turbine you need another power source to run them all they don't work then you need something to store that energy.

Look how much black coal we send off shore so other countries can manufacture stuff so we can buy it back in its complete form, since we stopped producing steel the quality is like half as it once was.
Where is it logic sending our iron ore and clean coal to another country so they can smelter our product with our coal just so it can be returned on a ship in compete form, that is 3x the shipping its madness, those coal ships don't stop leaving our ports its go go go.

We have to pay more to go green with renewable energy and these pricks get to burn our coal and pay less for it while our country suffers.
We as a country are a laughing stock to the world you don't see the middle east give away there liquid gold, we give away all of our resources next to nothing and its going to bite our kids hard in the future, these minerals belongs to Australia and should stay here so we don't run short in the future even way after you and I die.

Its just corruption and greed and the biggest crooks are the ones who suppose to have our backs but all they about is looking after themselves saying look at the books we did a great job keeping us in surplus no matter the cost. But our people left to suffer with high unemployment and high taxes to make up for the lack of manufacturing, the UN has stuffed our country economy putting to much restrictions with you guest it our carbon emissions or face billions in fines for not keeping to their target limit set by them with the Parris accord agreement yet China and India its do what you bloody want they just add 20% of their telly onto Australia total telly amount for the year.

 

Renewable is a misnomer, just sounds so Green, Blue, what about Brown just like dirt. You cannot destroy or create energy, you can transform it and each step is not 100% efficient, so there are losses in the process. The energy comes from somewhere, we just tap into it, transform most of it in Electric Power.

There is nothing in Renewable that is Renewable. Nobody takes Wind Power, convert to Electric Power to convert into Wind to renew the Energy we took from the Wind.

Here is strange caveat. Fossil Fuels (petrol) are not made from Fossils, that was a perceived idea when they were discovered, a theory. Is proven, the Earth by itself, with heat and pressure, lace hydrocarbons. Is a long process but the Russians where able to prove it with deep wells and dumping Natural Gas and other compounds.

 

The term 'renewable' isn't about creating energy, more about the source. If we can grow the source of energy such as biofuels then it's considered renewable. Coal or oil on the other hand takes many lifetimes to produce making it essentially a 1 off thing and once it's gone it'll be essentially off the table for any timeline that you or I could conceive. ie - non-renewable.

one of the definitions of 'fossil' means '[o]btained by digging; found buried in the earth' by the Oxford Dictionary. This is along side other definitions that primarily include ancient dead organisms that have been preserved

 

Not looking, taking your word for it, if that is the definition of fossil, I stand corrected.

 

Latest poll from New Zealand