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JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

figjam

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Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey killed off the car industry

Here we go again…. “Abbott and Hockey killed the car industry”
Holden decided to close the day after Hockey asked them to put up, or shut up and piss off…….yeah, right.
Holden should have closed its doors in 1987 when the VL Nissan engine deal sent them broke.

Please do some historical reading about the Australian car industry, which goes back a lot further than 2014, as I am not going to try to explain it …. again.
 

Calaber

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My view is that even if the government had given Holden more subsidies, GM would have still have closed the joint down, maybe this year or next. They dumped Pontiac, a far bigger seller and more significant brand name around the world than Holden, flogged Opel who also far outsell Holden, shut the Cruze plant in Lordstown, have arranged new model production in China, yet people STILL think Holden would be making cars, which it appears nobody even wants to buy anymore, if Joe Hockey and Tony Abbot had stumped up a few more billion. Got me stuffed.
 

c2105026

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For the record, it seems that part of the reorganisation of GM post GFC bankruptcy was to withdraw from RHD markets. Japan, India, Sth Africa....brand is still alive for now in Australia but all meaningful presence is gone.

Indeed - if the debt problem is to be solved it is to be everyone’s responsibility as everyone has contributed to it in one way shape or form. We are only too happy to accept government services but are also generally too happy to minimise our tax we pay. We can’t always be blaming other people for the deficit because to others we ARE other people.

In other news did the ABC vote compass, it seems I’m around the centre.
 

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Reaper

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My bad on the interest rates. I meant tax rates.

Fair work Australia might well have been set up by the Gillard government. Are you suggesting that the current government left these ex union officials there and they were the ones who allowed the overtime payments to be cut? I doubt it. The government needs to take more responsibility for these cuts and not hide behind some committee.

Yup. Thats the exact purpose of FWA - in theory to interdependently set base wage levels and awards which Govco implements. They haven't changed OT rates - just Sunday penalty rates. Interestingly Shorten prior to the decision said 'we will accept the verdict of the independent umpire'. Then when it became politically opportune for him he changed his stance. Has a fair history on that one - just ask Gillard :p

The whole idea of overtime rates or more correctly penalty rates in the first was to make it uneconomical and allow people to spend more time with their families. I know and have been guilty of it myself of working every hour that I could. I worked in the mines 11 on 3 off purely for the money. Would I have been as interested in working there if there were no overtime rates? Who knows I wasn't faced with that situation We didn't have children so the effect on family life was not the same as someone who could not watch their children say play Saturday sport.

OT rates haven't changed. Penalties for working weekends have changed for some awards.

Regarding the banks there are people who should have gone to jail to in effect get some paltry fine. Go ask the person who has lost his house because of what the bank did to him what he thinks of their conduct and what would have happened to him if he had done the same.

Moving forward, what exactly do you want changed with regards to banks. Retribution is fine but the key is what should change to make things better going forward?

The senate is not just made up of LNP, Labor and the Greens, it is also the independents. We have the ludicrous situation that some one who received 19 votes could possibly decide the fate of the country. That is the hand that they are dealt so that is the game they have to play. And both side of politics play that game. Remember the antics of Abbot when the he was in opposition?

Regarding our national debt, part of of is made up through things that are out of our control. The country imports 80% of its oil and it is paid for in US dollars. It was only a few years ago that we had parity with the US dollar, now we are paying approximately one third more and once again the cost of a barrel of oil is going up. We need to look harder into electric cars as one way of reducing our dependency on oil. For a person like myself who has 3 v8's this is going to require a change of attitude. It might take some time.

You are confusing private debt (that made up of companies and private individual borrowing money) and public debt is that of government borrowing money for government things.

Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey killed off the car industry

Lolololol - you are so misinformed it's actually hilarious.

Here we go again…. “Abbott and Hockey killed the car industry”
Holden decided to close the day after Hockey asked them to put up, or shut up and piss off…….yeah, right.
Holden should have closed its doors in 1987 when the VL Nissan engine deal sent them broke.

Please do some historical reading about the Australian car industry, which goes back a lot further than 2014, as I am not going to try to explain it …. again.

Holden were broke much earlier than that - was the early 80's and GM bailed them out. The VL was a big leap forward for them and things went from strength to strength thru the VN/P/R/S years to the pinnacle around VX/Y.

In reality, and I have given it a lot of thought and research, I think Holden leaving Australia was caused by many, many factors. The button plan was great for it's day but wasn't adjusted to keep up with the times. Both sides of Government have to put their hands up on that one.

GM also putting their beaks in thinking they knew how to do things better and really fked things (and continue to do so to this day). Many point the finger at unions but I suspect their culpability was not big. Cost of energy (power) was a big factor, being a huge input cost to the car and even at the subsidised rates they are paying, it's way over the odds compared to most of the world.

The Aus$ was terrible for Holden at the time also played a substantial part.

In reality the decision was made well in advance with the only question being 'when'. The only contribution the LNP had was nothing more than bringing the inevitable decision (and they knew an announcement was due within days) to ahead. Anybody who thinks a car company makes such a decision within 6 weeks of a government being elected has rocks in their heads and clearly has no knowledge of how Auto manufacturing actually works.
 

figjam

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The VL Nissan engine deal done in 1983 at 300yen to AUD$1 nearly finished them. By the time they were getting the engines it was about 100yen to AUD$1, effectively 3 times more than they envisaged.
Motoring journo Peter Robinson still has an injunction preventing him talking/writing about the OHC 3 litre, and its specifications.

Some questions to those who blame the current LNP govt for the demise of Aus car industry ………...
Why did Ford cancel the planned Focus production ?
Why was the Falcon allowed to just fade away ?
Why was the V2 Monaro designed in secret ?
Why did it take 18 months to approve production of the Monaro ?
What happened to the Holden export deals after Peter Hanenburger was shuffled off into retirement ?
Why was there never a VE Monaro, VE Crewman and VE ‘Territory-like’ SUV ?

If, IF, Holden were still in production, and everything was still rosy with the pixies in the garden, we would probably have got the ZB in 2015, along with the Equinox. ZB and Equinox haven’t been a success, just in case nobody noticed.
By 2022, the end result would have been the same as 2017, only with $ XX millions more of taxpayers money gone, back to the USA..
 

keith reed

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A factory worker in China is paid per month roughly what a factory worker in Australia is paid per day. We are never going to compete with that. Have a look at where your shirt is made. That industry must be all but gone.
Holden had no hope of surviving but the day was brought closer with the removal of subsidies. It can only be a matter of time before they are gone forever. If general motors doesn't get its way then they shut up shop. General Motors had little interest in Australia anyway. No right hand drive Camaro or Corvette and it isn't going to change any time soon. They must have had cars that would suit our changing market.
Look at what is happening in the USA. The car industry is not allowed to fall over. To protect workers in the USA Trump is attempting to level the playing field by imposing tariffs particularly on China. All very well playing by the rules as long as everyone else does is fine but they don't.
My hearing aids are the basic ones and cost $1600. The Chinese are just getting into the market, I was told the other day that Samsung and others are just getting into this market, the cost is going to be around $200-300.
I feel sorry for someone just starting in the workforce. In England there are people who have never had a job. It could well happen here.
In Auckland after the employment contract came in companies were auctioning wage rates. Who ever bid the lowest got the job.
 

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The VL Nissan engine deal done in 1983 at 300yen to AUD$1 nearly finished them. By the time they were getting the engines it was about 100yen to AUD$1, effectively 3 times more than they envisaged.
Motoring journo Peter Robinson still has an injunction preventing him talking/writing about the OHC 3 litre, and its specifications.

No doubt the AU$-YEN hurt and was the underlying reason why the Buick was hurriedly dumped in the VN. Wasn't the difference between Holden being profitable or not.
 

Skydrol

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2 min Ad, of course is a joke.

 

Skydrol

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Interesring about Canada. Looks like they had it with taxes. Jason Kenney won the seat in Alberta.

Looks like the Global trend is moving to the more conservative Center leaning to the Right. In Spain Vox is growing and Italy Movimento 5 Stella took a good chunk of the seats.


“I think they [Trudeau government] should be prepared for the end of the carbon tax, the end of any kind of cooperation on climate change with the province of Alberta, and from having any kind of ally in this part of the country,” Stewart told CTV News Channel after the election results came in.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/what-...a-could-mean-for-the-rest-of-canada-1.4383638
 
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