Key or the car?

[Robert Horner]

VT Commodore sedan.
New 3 button genuine key from locksmith $99 supplied using key code and BCM code.

Key turns the door and ignition locks and starts the engine - no problem there.

Learning the remote.
Key in ignition dash lights on (doors closed) - wait for 30 seconds then start the engine. Idle for 20 seconds all good.
Turn engine off.
Hop out of the car - the remote locks the door then opens then locks - Sweet!
Next morning - remote fails to open door no matter how hard I mashed the button.
Repeat learning remote. All good again.
That night remote not working again.
Repeat learning remote. All good again.
Next morning
A pattern is forming here.
I pulled the 10A fuse under the bonnet for the BCM. The car will not crank.
Replace fuse - repeat learning remote. Remote locks and opens YAY!
That night... no good again.
Now if I pull the fuse or not the car will not learn the remote. Still it will start with the key.

The old key including remote worked fine until the deteriorating rubbers jammed a button down. I assume this killed the lithium battery. Now the old key remote is not good but it will start the car etc. I cut it open put 3.6V on the battery. The remote will not lock/open the car although I was not able do a remote learn cycle.

I'm not sure if it is the remote in the key head ot the car. Are there rolling codes getting out of sync or something? Then does the car still start? My other car has a receiver in the C pillar. Does the VT have something like this?
Unlikely as it seems, is there a radio receiver for the remote that may be playing up? Where is it?
The car is stock with electric windows. I've changed the head unit. This all worked fine for some time with the old key.

Any ideas?

TIA

 

[Lex]

Take the key & fob back to where you bought it.
Tell the person who sold it to you the problem.

 

[krusing]

There is probably nothing wrong with the new Key Head, Its just that your trying to trick it in to thinking its a valid Key,
I know where you got those instructions [at a guess You tube] and they are hood winking you.

The ONLY way to get a Key Remote working Properly, is to Program it in with a Analyser or Tech2,
or there is a Unit that Supercheap sells, that assists programming a new Key Head in the car.
I had a customer try to do a similar thing, as he brought the new Key Head off eBay,
because the rubber buttons had perished and told me the exact same thing happen,
He brought it around in the end, and I had to program it in properly, and the rest is history.

In all honesty, don't buy the push in buttons, as they CAN flatten the battery by having pressure on the internal buttons,
then you will have to break it open and try and replace the battery, and the original casing will not assemble again properly and seal up correctly,
Don't buy the cheap Chinese after market ones, because they are not sealed correctly,
spend the little extra, and get a genuine one, and it will last a lot longer, and will work correctly.

 

[Robert Horner]

Thanks Lex, the seller has already said to send it back. I will give that a shot if I can't sort it myself. I'm in WA the seller is in QLD.

Krusing, thank you too. I've got a new genuine key - you picked it, from ebay. Half the full retail price from the dealers. I'm just trying to be sure it is the key and not car before I send it back. Note although the remote only worked a few times the key always starts the car. Seems the ignition and remote central locking functions are seperate. Is the tech2 really needed to set up the remote central locking? Is there a detailed write up available for this like there is for the EWS in my other car?
I've seen the replacement heads - not strong. Hence I bought the a new seemingly genuine key.

 

[krusing]

Yes, you need a Tech2, or similar to program in a Key CORRECTLY for it to work.
I have a Tech2, that have just purchased, and haven't used it as yet, apart from connecting it up to my VY to see the menu's, and to see how the screen is laid out, I have read, I have to purchase a licence to be able to program Keys in the Cars.
However, I do have a Autel unit, and that does Commodore Keys almost automatically, VS's to VZ's are straight forward,
and never had a failure yet, as I only recommend Genuine Key heads.
If I program in a Genuine Key Head, I give the customer Labour Warranty,
If its a Not a Genuine One, I tell the customer, your on your own if it fails.

On another note, this is what happened today,
I had a family friend call tonight [he has a 2003 VY Berlina],
[He purchased 2 x Cheap Replacement Shells for $8 each some time ago]
and said he had broken down, the car only starts for 2 seconds and stops,
I said, sounds like the immobiliser is kicked in, and he said the light was constantly flashing on the dash,
he did say the Pin next the Key Blade had fallen out because the casing had fallen apart, I said put it all back together, and slide the pin back in, make sure its making contact to the Circuit board, and try it then, with it contacting the slip ring [the ring around the ignition switch]
bingo, it started,
He ended up late for his appointment, and missed it.
morel of the story "Don't Buy Cheap Push in Replacement Buttons" "Don't Buy Cheap Key Head Shells, Don't Buy Cheap Non Genuine After Market Key Heads,
Only Buy Genuine Key Heads, Because the cheap BS units/items they sell, will fail at the most inconvenient time, and it did in this case tonight, and ended up costing him $60 for a "fail to show for an appointment"
you can Purchase Genuine ones on eBay for $48 > $60, and most a free postage, depending what state your in.
The last lot I purchased was from "Global Locksmiths in Camberwell" off eBay, for $49ea inc postage. [Free Plug for Global Locksmiths]
So you can guess what he is doing this weekend,
coming around to program in a New Genuine Key Head, last one that I have in stock.

VS to VZ, Genuine Part #'s
3 Button - 92049154
2 Button - 92049153
1 Button - 92051807

Where the VE's are a bit different, as they have 2 stages of programming [wont bore you with the details]

 

[DavesSV6Tonner]

Hi Krusing,
Are those Austel diagnostic units worth the $$$$. Most mechanics charge around $70 for the use of their scan tools + their labour.
As a DIY mechanic with a VZ & VE in our stable I have procrastinated about buying a scan tool but have no idea what to get.
If you don't mind me asking what model Austel you have and is it suitable for both VZ & VE series?

Dave.

 

[Aus78Formula]

I had the same 2 months ago. Brand new key programmed for a new VZ that had worn buttons and no spare key. It wasn't a cheapie, genuine GM.

Worked perfectly for 2 days. Drove back from the shops, it wouldn't lock or react to buttons or flash lights. I could start it, lock by key, but buttons did nothing.

Dug out the used spare, it worked. Tried the new key again, it worked. Hmmm.

About 3 days later, same thing except I was out and couldn't lock it. Drove home and got spare key by which time both keys worked perfectly. Have had no problems with new key since. The locksmith said it was getting confused about which key I was using, which was crap, that was only once the issue arose for testing. So perhaps still a little learning going on, albeit very late.

But other than saying, it came good, I don't have an answer.

 

[Whiteshark68]

When i was in the market for a new key as i only had the one i got a brand new nos key head from the locksmith i use and he had to program the key head and then link said key to the car with a tech 2 or something like one. i talked to the local mister minute about getting a pair of new key heads as my original was getting old and they only "link" the key through the remote relearn and i told them it wouldn't work as the locksmith had told me exactly what krusing is saying that these key heads need to be programed into the bcm and will not work properly until they are.

 

[Robert Horner]

Gentlemen thank you all for your input. Sorry I've not updated but I've posted the complete key back to the locksmiths on the other side of Australia. I await their response. They continue to provided excellent service. It is more difficult for them not having access to the car.
Anyway, the clear consensus is to use genuine keys. I'm doing that.
I'll update when there's developments.
Cheers.

 

[krusing]

Hi Krusing,
Are those Austel diagnostic units worth the $$$$. Most mechanics charge around $70 for the use of their scan tools + their labour.
As a DIY mechanic with a VZ & VE in our stable I have procrastinated about buying a scan tool but have no idea what to get.
If you don't mind me asking what model Austel you have and is it suitable for both VZ & VE series?

Dave.

I procrastinated and purchased the DS708 and learnt how to use it, and loved it, spent a bit of time learning about it, and using it [on my VE to program in my replacement everyday Key], [and that's how you learn]
I purchased a MS908P, which is the next best replacement for the DS708,
DS708 was Windows CE based O/S, where the MS908P is a Android based O/S,
takes a bit to get used to it, but works great.

I had the DS708 up till recently, I put it up on Gumtree, and it sold within 3 days,
The buyer couldn't believe his luck, as it was still in new condition, didn't even low ball me,
as he seen the condition it was in, with all the leads, Plug and Accessories, original Software Backups.
I got my money back.
I did a fair few VX, VY and VE Keys with it, and done a heap of scans.
I wanted to upgrade, as curiosity got the better of me, and ended up buying a new model,
As for worth it, all depends upon what you wish to use it for,
and depends upon the usage, if you just want to do a Scan, you can probably get one that will do the job for a 1/4 of the price I paid, I did look into the basic ones, but I wanted to do more.
But if you want to do just Keys, it will take a lot of Key Programming to pay for it.
if its a day to day tool, yes, and you would get your money back in no time,
But for me, My Cars are my Hobby, I really only use it for Scanning my own cars, as we are a 5 car family
2 x Holdens [VY & VE] and 3 x Mazda3's [Sorry about mentioning an opposition],
and have used it Programming in Keys for VS's > VZ's, and VE's for a few extra $'s to help pay it off,
I do it as a hobby, but not making enough to pay a wage.
What made be buy one, is that I had an issue with my VY Super6, and wanted to know what the fault was, and fix it myself, I rang a Holden Dealer [remain nameless] and the Starting Price was $90 min to look at it, then + additional labour to scan it, plus extra for items they find wrong with it that need replacing.
So I figured, I can do this myself, and check to see what the car is doing, in fact I realized I can do all 5 cars,
I now know they are all running correctly.
But it is interesting, the hidden items you find, and the codes that come up in the back ground without the owner, driver even knowing, as it doesn't always activate the MIL on the Dash.
In a nut shell, they are expensive toys, just for 1 or 2 Cars.
I did say in another thread a little while ago,
that If any JC Members needed Keys Programmed in, I would donate $10 from each Key Programming Job to JC Site, to help keep it going.
Being its not cheap to run a site like this. As I maintained a couple of sporting Web Sites in Melbourne South East Suburbs a few years ago, and donated a lot of after hours time to keep it up to date with fixtures and Game Results.
Hope this helps.