Koni / Bilstein Shock Help

[HollySSV]

Just double check Banjo, 380mm both sides rear. Front is 400mm neat both sides. I purchased the eibach pro springs the other day, Got an email from the seller today saying that they have been discontinued so refunded me. Waiting on an email from Eibach Australia to find out if this is actually the case. The springs are definitely factory.

 

[Banjo79]

I can't argue with eyeballs. Just to give you an idea, I've had my wagon lowered to f390/r385, which was about half an inch from stock. Keeps wheel of popo clear of cats. MCA recommend, at least for their ProSports, f380mm/r375, so you can see why I think your riding low in the rear.
Very roughly, your stock springs will be f2.5kg/mm, r5.0kg/mm, or roughly 25nm/50nm. If you can obtain rates for springs your interested in, then that gives you a starting point, but how heavy a spring and what bias front and rear that would be optimum for B8's is anyone's guess.
Not sure where you bought them, but I doubt even places like Fulcrum typically would give you an honest answer, or any answer at all, as to a more suitable spring rate. Who ever the Aus importer is should have some freaking idea, since they pumped squillions of them out into the VE/VF market through places like Fulcrum, but sadly I would be doubtful that they'd offer that info, specific to the car they're going on. While I think of it, JHP has a King Spring height chart on their page for VE/VF. I don't think any brand will offer lower rate than stock, but everything I've looked at over the years seems very comfort orientated and not much firmer either. Can't remember if it was Dobinson's or someone else that did custom linear rate springs, but there won't be much comfort left if you went that route and you may run the risk of over springing it, though its an option if you were prepared to fit a few to find the right match. Regardless of what the seller/importer say, if you only want mild lowering, you'll be stuck with Kings anyway. Other brands mentioned that only offer one spring option really give you a lowered look, up to 40mm lower. For the purpose of aesthetics, I personally wouldn't be aiming to retain your 20mm bias front to rear either. Probably doesn't matter too much, but you'd be mixing and matching if you do, at least with Kings.

 

[HollySSV]

I can't argue with eyeballs. Just to give you an idea, I've had my wagon lowered to f390/r385, which was about half an inch from stock. Keeps wheel of popo clear of cats. MCA recommend, at least for their ProSports, f380mm/r375, so you can see why I think your riding low in the rear.
Very roughly, your stock springs will be f2.5kg/mm, r5.0kg/mm, or roughly 25nm/50nm. If you can obtain rates for springs your interested in, then that gives you a starting point, but how heavy a spring and what bias front and rear that would be optimum for B8's is anyone's guess.
Not sure where you bought them, but I doubt even places like Fulcrum typically would give you an honest answer, or any answer at all, as to a more suitable spring rate. Who ever the Aus importer is should have some freaking idea, since they pumped squillions of them out into the VE/VF market through places like Fulcrum, but sadly I would be doubtful that they'd offer that info, specific to the car they're going on. While I think of it, JHP has a King Spring height chart on their page for VE/VF. I don't think any brand will offer lower rate than stock, but everything I've looked at over the years seems very comfort orientated and not much firmer either. Can't remember if it was Dobinson's or someone else that did custom linear rate springs, but there won't be much comfort left if you went that route and you may run the risk of over springing it, though its an option if you were prepared to fit a few to find the right match. Regardless of what the seller/importer say, if you only want mild lowering, you'll be stuck with Kings anyway. Other brands mentioned that only offer one spring option really give you a lowered look, up to 40mm lower. For the purpose of aesthetics, I personally wouldn't be aiming to retain your 20mm bias front to rear either. Probably doesn't matter too much, but you'd be mixing and matching if you do, at least with Kings.

Would you recommend asking to cancel the order for the bilstein and looking at the pro comfort range from MCA. I was looking at the pro sport but another member suggested they would be way to firm for daily driving for my other half.

 

[shane_3800]

I still think Bilstien and Eibachs are the go.
But King springs have been good for me and mynold boss when I used to do suspension.
Pedders used to be good but they're starting to use china for springs these days all the inventory might be off shore they used to be made in VIC.
Lovells are crap they screw their heat treating up or just use cheap spring stock as they sagg all the time.
King is mediocre but like I said I've had good experience with their products unlike all the others, other than pedders which might be **** now.

Eibach is the best hands down.

There's not nearly as much engineering needes to match a spring to a car rather than a shock even then it's not a massive issue if the spring is 10% out.

When a spring saggs it losses it's pre load and becomes untrapped and this is the worst for handling. If you people don't understand this they shouldn't be touching cars.

 

[HollySSV]

I still think Bilstien and Eibachs are the go.
But King springs have been good for me and mynold boss when I used to do suspension.
Pedders used to be good but they're starting to use china for springs these days all the inventory might be off shore they used to be made in VIC.
Lovells are crap they screw their heat treating up or just use cheap spring stock as they sagg all the time.
King is mediocre but like I said I've had good experience with their products unlike all the others, other than pedders which might be **** now.

Eibach is the best hands down.

There's not nearly as much engineering needes to match a spring to a car rather than a shock even then it's not a massive issue if the spring is 10% out.

When a spring saggs it losses it's pre load and becomes untrapped and this is the worst for handling. If you people don't understand this they shouldn't be touching cars.

Hi Shane I just got a reply email back from Eibach regarding the springs for sportwagons.
Question is ""Hi There, has this kit been discontinued for the VF Holden Commodore Sport Wagon Range. Thanks.""

Answer is ""Hi, The rear springs for the VF & VF2 wagon models are no longer availble. The sedan kit could be applied but this will require the spring platforms to be raised by approximatley 6mm.""

bugger

trying to see if the MCA Sport Comfort kit would be a good alternative kit now.

 

[Banjo79]

Would you recommend asking to cancel the order for the bilstein and looking at the pro comfort range from MCA. I was looking at the pro sport but another member suggested they would be way to firm for daily driving for my other half.

Yeah, that was me suggesting they're firm. If your scared of B8's, don't go there. MCA's description is accurate. I can't comment on pro comfort, but someone lurking (member escapes me) has them and might pipe in. I doubt their pro comfort would be as comfortable as B8's with a progressive spring though. If it was me and H&R height was suitable, I'd go them. Sparesbox says 1.5-1.8 inches, KPM, if they're the same springs say 30mm, split the difference? If not, Kings for milder lowering. If you really think you'll tinker with front and rear damping and height to achieve something specific, MCA. Bear in mind if your taking up to 30mm off a 380mm rear end, its getting pretty low.

 

[shane_3800]

Hi Shane I just got a reply email back from Eibach regarding the springs for sportwagons.
Question is ""Hi There, has this kit been discontinued for the VF Holden Commodore Sport Wagon Range. Thanks.""

Answer is ""Hi, The rear springs for the VF & VF2 wagon models are no longer availble. The sedan kit could be applied but this will require the spring platforms to be raised by approximatley 6mm.""

bugger

trying to see if the MCA Sport Comfort kit would be a good alternative kit now.

The Bilstien shocks have adjustable spring platforms on some models of shock.

 

[RevNev]

Answer is ""Hi, The rear springs for the VF & VF2 wagon models are no longer availble. The sedan kit could be applied but this will require the spring platforms to be raised by approximatley 6mm.""

There you go, Eibach's interest in accommodating the iconic Commodore wagon, so who said Eibach are the best?

Mate, do yourself a favour and buy a set of King springs at the height you prefer and a set of Monroe GT Sport shocks and trust me, it's the best value for money combo out there for a good handling and ride compromise. You can improve the handling over the King/Monroe setup BUT, it'll reduce the ride quality and comfort the better the car handles.

Most importantly for handling balance on the VE/VF chassis platform is maintaining the factory roll axis to minimise understeer. The rear ride must be no more that 5mm lower than the front. Understeer is built into most cars for safety because oversteer (snapping sideways) panics the majority of drivers and they lose control and crash the car. Banging all the young blokes impounding cars etc for doing burnouts and going sideways learning how to drive improves safety does it?

 

[Banjo79]

Just had another look at everyone selling H & R springs and am yet to see them listed for anything other than a sedan. So it might be Kings, Kings or Kings. At least you'll get the height right.

 

[HollySSV]

So I have been refunded for the Bilstein kit & Springs. I have decided to go with the MCA kit. Josh at MCA said the Pro Comfort kit is more suited to daily driving, with 10kg Front, 10kg rear springs. Or the Pro sport with a 11/11 kg spring. The sport would be about 20% stiffer at the lowest setting on dampening then factory. The comforts would be approximately 20% firmer at highest dampening setting and around the same as factory running at about 25%, looks like the Pro Comfort in the coilovers would be most suited to my wife’s comfort. [/QUOTE]