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l76 lifter tick

Discussion in 'VZ Holden Commodore (2004 - 2006)' started by grasshopper645, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. grasshopper645

    grasshopper645 New Member

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    Got a pretty significant lifter noise. From what i've read its somewhat common.

    Its pretty loud and slowly dissapears over a few minutes.

    I have no issues with replacing the lifters, but i'm just concerned that may not fix the problem. Have read a number of others who have replaced the lifters and had the noise remain.

    Is there an actual known resolution to this issue? - An actual fix rather than the usual 'try another oil change' etc
     
  2. CliveSS

    CliveSS New Member

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    Yup - lots of posts with opinions but not too much hard fact.

    I've recently posted on the VF web site regarding lifter issues/oil consumption. You might find that thread of interest. On my last post I included a youtube clip which has pretty good sound of a cold engine. Lots of rattle and from what I can glean it's pretty normal? Let us know how you get on.
     
  3. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    I'm mechanic by trade 11+ years of experience. I've done a few of these and we found the cam bearings to be the issue. The bearings wear allowing excessive oil to seep past them resulting in pressure drop to the lifters. This pressure drop lowers the PSI on the point of the roller which should be in the thousends (dont know actual number) which lets the roller skate (i know) which wears some of the case hardening off it.

    The resolution is to do the cam bearings. We do cam bearings, cam, lifters, oil pump, timing chain, full gasket kit, head bolts and machine the heads. We don't have any issues with the engines and this is what our engine builders told us to do and both are in their 50-60's and work together. one of their ex employes actually works with us and he detected the cam bearing issue for us and I figured the rest out.
     
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  4. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    Also rocker truinoin upgrade is an option too because the bearings in those can cause issues. Mostly on performance engines but they can fail any time letting lots of extremely hard pins fly around your engine.
     
  5. Mavericks Choice

    Mavericks Choice Well-Known Member

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    If you lift the heads on an oem VZ L76 might as well do a dod delete, replace that cam as there is a good chance it's stuffed too.
     
  6. CliveSS

    CliveSS New Member

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    Assuming you have the L76 in stock form with auto trans. - i.e. DOD hardware present and factory DOD disabled. However if it is the manual with no DOD hardware, most of the following will still be relevant.

    My understanding is that there shouldn't be any specific issue with the DOD lifters fitted to cyl's 1, 7, 4 & 6. The lifters are permanently in the locked position and therefore there should be no opportunity for mistimed actuation of locking pins to cause damage or sticking (compressed) springs.

    So if a lifter tick is evident it could be a problem on the non DOD lifters or the DOD lifters - possibly unlikely to be directly linked to the DOD system itself.

    Many posts on many forums seem to indicate that hydraulic lifters are inherently noisy - whether on a DOD engine or a non DOD engine. This also suggests that the problem is not necessarily linked to a poorly implemented DOD system. Also to paraphrase grasshopper645 - others have replaced lifters (whether DOD or non DOD) and the lifter noise persists. It therefore seems illogical and unnecessary to simply go for a DOD delete (where cams etc are found to be in good order). If the DOD ain't broke then removing it will not fix the problem.

    Thanks to shane_3800 for providing the info on camshaft bearings and oil pressure. Another good post indicating that simply doing a DOD delete might be a waste of time and money.

    Check out the following youtube clip - Melling Tech Tips JB-7011, Nov 12, 2018.



    Notwithstanding the above it seems that GMH fitted revised (upgraded?) lifters over time. First with Delphi 1 lifters and for the L77 VF series 1 with Delphi 2 lifters. It seems likely that the revised lifters were intended to improve on the performance of the original L76 lifters. That being the case, perhaps replacing all L76 lifters with newer Delphi 1 or 2 lifters would be a benefit? I can't say whether the Delphi 1 or 2 lifters would be a drop in replacement or whether other mod's would be required - machining of lifter bores, different push rods, cam swap etc? Perhaps worth noting is that (as far as I am aware) the later L77 motors used 16 DOD lifters - there being no difference between lifters used on DOD cylinders and non DOD cylinders (NOT SO! SEE UPDATED POST). Possibly your friendly GMH dealership would be able to shed some light on the matter?

    Doubtless many have had lifters replaced and if any of you can provide feedback on the issues and questions noted above it would be really good to hear from you, for the benefit of all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  7. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    I just did an L77 they're the same as L76 with only 4 DOD cylinders so 4 with normal lifters.
     
  8. CliveSS

    CliveSS New Member

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    To update (and correct) my Nov 04 post.

    I have been in contact with GMH auto parts distributor in Perth WA. 'The parts guy' informs me that even the last of the L77 engines used 8 x DOD lifters and 8 x solid lifters. Also thanks shane_3800.

    The part number for the DOD lifters was changed in April 2019. It is 12680871 ($149.84 ea.). The part number for the solid lifters was changed in March 2017. It is 12648846 ($18.35 ea.). It may be worth noting that a change in part number does not necessarily mean a redesign or change in specification. It could simply be that a different company supplies the lifter (as told by 'the parts guy' at the GMH auto parts distributor). Hence the new part number does not in itself mean that the new lifter is better or worse than the superseded lifter.
     
  9. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Not Piston slap noise is it?
     
  10. Mavericks Choice

    Mavericks Choice Well-Known Member

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    Really see no point in keeping all that dod hardware! To replace your noisy lifters heads off anyhow, use the normal replacement LS7 lifters. Before you pull it down do an oil pump pressure test. Generally speaking the L76 is a good high volume pump from oem. I don't think you will save any money by just fitting oem L76 lifters. Do more research, spend a few more dollars & do it right.
     

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