Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Lifter tick

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by Wayne001, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Location:
    Meadow springs
    Members Ride:
    Vf calais
    Hi all i have a 2013 vf calais with the l77 in it , i change the oil every 5000klm with penrite 5w-30 full synthetic it has done 82000km. I have noticed that i am starting to get a lifter tick and the oil change was done only 1000klm ago , is this a common thing to happen could i have a gunked up lifter already ? It is a AFM motor aswell .
     
  2. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Location:
    Downunder
    Members Ride:
    Commodore Motorsport
    I have read that there is a little mesh filter that helps to further filter the oil going to the lifters. Such mesh filters are limited to AFM/DOD V8 engines of which L77 is just one that has such. I've not seen this mesh filter myself but supposedly it's under the oil sender. There is nothing about the mesh filter being cleaned or replaced within the service schedule that i am aware of.

    Anyway, over time, this mesh filter may get clogged leading to reduced oil presure to the lifters and thus causing ticking noise and/or other issues. Read about this mesh filter here.

    As well, there are a number of issues that result in lifter tick and service bulletin addres them. Such have impacted L77's in VE and to a less extent in VF's . Read about the VE issues and VF issues as there are may be enlightening ;)

    Oh, edited to add that many also recomend lifter replaceemnt at 100,000kms which is a big cost Holden doesn't list as an item under their service scehdule. I'm not sure is such is or is not needed on standard engines?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Banjo79 likes this.
  3. blackve76

    blackve76 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,499
    Likes Received:
    329
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    there
    Members Ride:
    VE SS ute 360rwkw N/A, 2016 VF2 SS M6
    Sounds like you have looked after her, is tick when cold? It'd it's constant when revs rise it'd be a dead lifter, our L76 Ve ss 09 was ticky at idle but fine when running.
     
  4. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Location:
    Meadow springs
    Members Ride:
    Vf calais
    When warm as far as i see it is at idle . Also i do get a chatter from the lifter on first start of the car in the morning not all the time though , it takes a second or 2 then quiter .
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  5. Smashfist

    Smashfist Active Member

    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    440rwhp Cammed VF Ute
    How prominent is it? With LS engines I've always worked on a "sewing machine" principle. If it sounds like a sewing machine or quieter, leave it alone. If it chirps, clacks or clunks then you have a problem.

    Another thing I remember seeing on a bulletin a while back was a second pressure regulating valve in the sump that can stick open if it's got debris in it causing a low oil pressure warning/dtc but that's unlikely. Do you have any type of scan tool that would let you monitor oil pressure?
     
    Skylarking likes this.
  6. Banjo79

    Banjo79 Active Member

    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    ...
    Members Ride:
    VF SS Sportwagon
    My L77 very gradually became a bit noisier somewhere around the same km's as yours +/- 15k. Now has done 155k and never got worse.
     
    krusing likes this.
  7. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Location:
    Meadow springs
    Members Ride:
    Vf calais
    I am not going to rip it apart for a little tick that i can live with , was just wondering what it could be at such early kilometers . Might try some lifter free and see how it goes . Thanks for all you input much appreciated.
     
    426Cuda and Pablito like this.
  8. Pablito

    Pablito Active Member

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Location:
    Central Coast NSW
    Members Ride:
    VF Redline
    That's the right attitude. In my experience of owning a number of them, a few seconds of ticking on a cold start is common. A bit of a tick at idle is ok too.

    Ticking for a few seconds on a warm start and also while accelerating/driving = bad.
     
  9. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Location:
    Downunder
    Members Ride:
    Commodore Motorsport
    Yes, there was an issue with L77 in VE according to the link I posted above where some valve would stick within the oil pump and cause low oil pressure issues; supposedly fixed in VF.

    Hopefully the OP read the article I linked to. If so he may consider that the secondary mesh filter in any AFM engined vehicle can cause lifter noise on startup if is dirty and such doesn’t always flag a DTC unless the dirt causes a big drop in pressure. So worth OP monitoring oil pressure and checking DTC as suggested.

    Problem with AFM vehicle’s, if it is a problem at all, is that the lifters need very clean oil and supposedly dirt as small as 3 microns is enough to cause issues. So any servicing that opens up the oil galleries (for example changing secondary mesh filter) needs to be done with complete cleanliness at heart and only one should only use high quality spin on oil filters.

    +1 for what Pablito said with the added emphasis on getting someone skilled to have a listen and give the all clear ;)

    After all, a forum simply can’t replace a skilled ear and what you describe verbally and how we interpret it on a forum could be poles apart. Luckily the VE/VF issues I linked too above has a video of problem lifter noise in LS2/LS7.

    Maybe you’ve listened to that video though you make no reference whether your noise sounds like that or not. And as smashfists stated, if you have chirps, clacks or clunks you have a problem that you should address and ignoring such could in the worst case result in something breaking which can then cost a awful lot to repair.

    Hope all goes well.
     
  10. Smashfist

    Smashfist Active Member

    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    440rwhp Cammed VF Ute
    No I know about the oil pump relief valve issues as well. There's a secondary valve threaded into the sump that limits pressure to the valvetrain as the AFM lifter pack has differing oil requirements to the non-AFM motors (notably more flow and controlled pressure). The valve in the sump can get debris in it and cause low pressure to the valvetrain.
     
    Skylarking and lmoengnr like this.
  11. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Location:
    Downunder
    Members Ride:
    Commodore Motorsport
    Sorry @Smashfist, I’m sure you knew about that issue. I just wanted to emphasise and make it clear to the OP that such things were discussed in the link. Probably didn’t come across as I intended.

    Cheers.
     
  12. Smashfist

    Smashfist Active Member

    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    440rwhp Cammed VF Ute
    Oh fair enough. I found a pic of the secondary valve just in case anyone's interested.

    [​IMG]
     
    Skylarking likes this.
  13. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Location:
    Meadow springs
    Members Ride:
    Vf calais
    Cheers, is this mesh filter a pain to get at ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  14. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Location:
    Meadow springs
    Members Ride:
    Vf calais
    Is this mesh filter at the rear of the motor ?
     
  15. Paulie81

    Paulie81 Active Member

    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Location:
    NSW
    Members Ride:
    MY16 VFII Prussian Steel SS-V Redline Manual
    He is what my Tractor sounds like on cold startup. 19,700KMS on the clock. Pretty much goes away when at operating temp which takes about 5 mins or so. Not sure what to think about it.
     
  16. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Location:
    Meadow springs
    Members Ride:
    Vf calais
    Wow compared to yours i have nothing to worry about .
     
  17. krusing

    krusing Active Member

    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Location:
    Bayside, Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    2002 VY L67 Calais Sedan, 2012 VE L77 Calais Wagon
     
  18. krusing

    krusing Active Member

    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Location:
    Bayside, Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    2002 VY L67 Calais Sedan, 2012 VE L77 Calais Wagon
    I also have the lifter noise in my L77, I did mention it to Holden a couple of times when I got it serviced,
    and they said its normal for AFM do that.
    So I haven't bothered, but its a bit worse now, Its not so prominent if you take the engine cover off, but you can still hear it.
    Worse in the mornings, when you just leave home, and when moving off with the traffic, quieten downs when it gets up to temp tho.
    I had a mate of mine that worked at a Dealer years ago, [will remain nameless] and he said, sometimes you may have to put a litre of gear oil in, to thicken it up a bit, he said it wont harm it, just shuts the clatter up.

    I did purchase a Stethoscope from Supercheap, and listened carefully, have put it down to one of the either DOD cylinder on the drivers side.
    I figure, best I just get a new set of Lifters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  19. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Location:
    Downunder
    Members Ride:
    Commodore Motorsport
    @Wayne001 the valve lifter oil filter is located under the oil pressure sensor which is on the passenger side rear of the engine block and partly under the air intake maniflod. It's somewhat described in a PDF of the VF/WM HSV Workshop manual. Supposedly its a real bugger to get to it.
     
  20. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Location:
    Downunder
    Members Ride:
    Commodore Motorsport
    Whatever the issue, it's typical for a dealer to say it's normal even when most normal people would consider it a problem that needs to be fixed.

    Almost seems like many dealers simply try and push the problem forward hoping it no longer becomes a lowly paid warranty job and instead transforms to a higher charged customer repair job.
     
    krusing likes this.

Share This Page