Link bar lifters vs crappy plastic lifter trays.

[shane_3800]

The lifter treasures are also there to stop the lifters turning. Only takes a little bit of movement to lunch the cam. Tie bars won't budge, it's pure peace of mind for smashing out the revs

Yea I'm hearing what you're saying and I lean that way myself. But smarter people than you and I seem to state OE trays work fine. Infact you have more chance popping the locks with a rocker twisting.

At the end of the day moving from a low travel anti pump OE style tray lifter to a tie bar is not much money.

 

[Pollushon]

Those smarter people also probably tear down their motors regularly. I don't plan to touch mine until 200k from now maybe longer

 

[Immortality]

You realise that roller lifters actually centre them selves. The trays or tie bars are only there to keep them in line when on base circle or when the engine is off.
If this was not the case engines would be killing lifters left right and centre.

Dale at Castlehill performance has been running OE trays for years without any issues.

This is 100% correct, if you have a hydraulic style cam/lifter then the pre-load on the lifter should keep the lifter roller square on the lobe surface at all times .... in theory. Solid cams/lifter configurations not so much when there is lash in the system.

Unfortunately (in the real world) lifters can and do rotate off centre when they shouldn't.

If you look at the last of the 304 motors with the roller cams it wasn't unheard off for the spider retainer brackets to break allowing the dogbone to move and the lifters to rotate eating the lifters/cams in the process.

A lot of the US workshops also use new genuine lifter trays when doing a cam/lifter swap so when pricing up GM lifters you need to include the cost of a set of trays when comparing stock style LS lifters Vs tie bar lifters.

 

[shane_3800]

This is 100% correct, if you have a hydraulic style cam/lifter then the pre-load on the lifter should keep the lifter roller square on the lobe surface at all times .... in theory. Solid cams/lifter configurations not so much when there is lash in the system.

Unfortunately (in the real world) lifters can and do rotate off centre when they shouldn't.

If you look at the last of the 304 motors with the roller cams it wasn't unheard off for the spider retainer brackets to break allowing the dogbone to move and the lifters to rotate eating the lifters/cams in the process.

A lot of the US workshops also use new genuine lifter trays when doing a cam/lifter swap so when pricing up GM lifters you need to include the cost of a set of trays when comparing stock style LS lifters Vs tie bar lifters.

The spider issue wasn't just a 304 issue but LT gen two had the same issues. It wasn't the lifters spinning but rather the dog bone lifting and jamming on the lifter body.

 

[Immortality]

But the common denominator was the the roller lifter retainer system failing leading to a much greater catastrophic failure. Tie bar lifters eliminate the failure mode and takes components out of the motor.

Interestingly, the older Buick V6 motors used spider/dog bone type lifter retainer system and I don't hear much about them breaking.

 

[shane_3800]

But the common denominator was the the roller lifter retainer system failing leading to a much greater catastrophic failure. Tie bar lifters eliminate the failure mode and takes components out of the motor.

Interestingly, the older Buick V6 motors used spider/dog bone type lifter retainer system and I don't hear much about them breaking.

And the new ones use plastics and never have problems, hell you wear big ends out before anything else on a buick V6.

 

[Deuce]

Shane is correct, when the roller wheel of the lifter is going up the lobe ramp it has a natural want to be dead straight. It's when a lifters hydraulic fails and on the base circle it chatters and will spin - that is my understanding of it.

So the cradle is only in effect during low load situations.

But I do agree that tie bars will take away that small risk all together.

 

[J_D 2.0]

You realise that roller lifters actually centre them selves. The trays or tie bars are only there to keep them in line when on base circle or when the engine is off.
If this was not the case engines would be killing lifters left right and centre.

Dale at Castlehill performance has been running OE trays for years without any issues.

Yes I do understand that in normal circumstances it’s not a problem. I’m only talking about abnormal circumstances when the lifter fails and there’s no preload to keep it in line.

From the discussions I’ve seen on here before and on YouTube people have had to replace whole engines because the lifter collapsed and spun. If you remove the spinning part of the equation you probably stand a better chance of catching the problem and rectifying it before the engine self destructs.

 

[shane_3800]

Yes I do understand that in normal circumstances it’s not a problem. I’m only talking about abnormal circumstances when the lifter fails and there’s no preload to keep it in line.

From the discussions I’ve seen on here before and on YouTube people have had to replace whole engines because the lifter collapsed and spun. If you remove the spinning part of the equation you probably stand a better chance of catching the problem and rectifying it before the engine self destructs.

If a lifter failes and it's a tie bar it'll likely hammer the cam and break the bar anyway.

 

[shane_3800]

This is why at a certain level.ypu mobe to solid.
I bet you're overthinking things tbh.