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losing it with this gearbox

Discussion in 'LSx Development and Modification' started by VZSSCHASE, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. VZSSCHASE

    VZSSCHASE Member

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    hi im at my wits end with this 4l65e gearbox have had fixed and rebuilt in a matter of weeks in my vz ss 6lt,im not sure what else to do, first off I lost 2nd gear while at the drags had it fixed then I lost gears from power button 4th to 3rd wouldn't engage then it did so I had a intermittent issue with that, box out again replaced the bands again and broken the pump to had it all fixed,then I lost 2nd gear again and when in 4th wouldn't drop back a gear, pulled box out replaced and fitted new valve body solenoids,new bands for 2nd and 4th again, all performance upgrades btw,gearbox fully rebuilt drove it for a day then lost 2nd gear again and no change from the power button or 4th back to 3rd wouldn't work then it did, pulled gearbox out again everything was good so replaced casing as it was the last thing they could think of,back on the rd harder shifts had all gears running great then lost 4th gear again,what is going on here I cant fix anything more on gearbox as its been rebuilt and nothing else to change over,i also had the 4000 stall converter inspected and fixed as one of the fins were warped,also had the spline replaced as it was warped and bent as well, have I missed anything could it be electrical within the transmission that's causing me to lose this gears? like I said im at my wits end with this. any ideas or have you had this issue in the past I need this sorted so I can race again.
     
  2. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    They're a GREAT transmission. BUT you need to have it built by somebody who knows what they're doing. Mismatched parts generally don't work, and the physical components are only half of the equation. If it's not tuned well on the transmission side, you'll keep going through transmissions forever.

    The biggest problem on the electrical side is the pressure control solenoid from what I've read. Other solenoid problems are generally characterised by the trans becoming stuck in gears etc.

    If you really decide to move away from the 4l60/65 you could try a th400 but that gets very expensive very quickly as you'd already know.
     
  3. VZSSCHASE

    VZSSCHASE Member

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    update, I drove it this morning when cold and it drives fine all gears even forth power button works fine freeway drove it for a good half hour sitting on 110 at 3000rpm cruising along no dramas soon as my trans temp gauge reaches 150'c I lose 4th soon its goes under 130'c I have 4th back I have fitted up trans cooler and deep pan sump, so basically when its cold its fine all gears soon it reaches 150'c I lose 4th? any ideas, strange thing before I had it rebuilt it lasted 4yrs drag racing and driving it hard with no trans cooler or deep sump no issues soon as I got it rebuilt and strengthed more than before with billet gear and replacing wide bands this happens.
     
  4. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    150 celcius is really, really hot, like destroy stuff hot which means there might be bigger problems (even 130 isn't really good). Just remember if you're referencing American sites they typically use Fahrenheit.

    Just out of curiosity what was the rebuild cost?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  5. VZSSCHASE

    VZSSCHASE Member

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    well unless this gauge is faulty that's what it reads 150c, I have never had a gauge on it in the past so I wouldn't know what the temp was back then, with no cooler either, now that I have one and it has been bypassed via the radiator which sits infront of air condenser close to the grill, she gets pretty hot? what causes that to happen? so far the rebuild has cost me just under 2k including all the other times its been fixed which he didn't charge me it has the beast sunshell,billet servo wide bands replaced the pump brand new valve body upped the pressures,upgraded the casing,has deep pan sump,transtac gasket ring set,sonnax pump,heavy duty reaction shells,its pretty much beefed up more than it was before which pretty much had all the go gear Kevlar bands corvette servo etc..., any ideas how I cool it down anymore it has a trans cooler 13"L x 10"W got that fitted up.im also got on order two 7" thermos fans for the cooler if that helps,what should the temp read on a gauge?
     
  6. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    I think it really should be running through the rad as well as the cooler. I have a big cooler fitted and when he fitted it he kept it running through the rad as well as the cooler.
     
  7. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    Thats a TINY cooler for your combo, especially since you have a histall. Being away from the radiator, the fans won't be able to suck cool air directly through that cooler. The other side of it is that the trans will take longer to warm up too. The coolant surrounding the trans cooler also means that the in-tank trans cooler in the radiator is more effective than it would be if it were open to the atmosphere.

    Your trans is operating at 300 degrees f or thereabouts which explains the failure according to this:
    [​IMG]

    A larger cooler along with fans would be a good idea, and connecting in series with the cooler in your radiator. Alternatively I've seen people use air con condensers as trans coolers - it's just a matter of welding the right fittings on or purchasing on older style with 3/8 barbs. You can even buy thermostats to ensure the trans doesnt run too cool, which can also be detrimental to trans life. There's a happy medium.

    4th gear needs both the 3/4 clutches and the band to be engaged. Theres a possibility the 3/4 clutchpack is already damaged but lets hope not... Not sure whether these have a temp switch to prevent it from going into overdrive at high temps?
     
  8. the_boozer

    the_boozer no more VK

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    Sorry to thread crash .I've all ways put the extra trans cooler in series with the existing cooler in the radiator which side should the extra trans cooler go on the in side or the out side? Do transmission fluid spot tests exist like coolant and brake fluid spot tests strips?
     
  9. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    Should go after the existing cooler - on the cold side. So from trans > factory cooler > additional cooler > trans
     
  10. lowandslow

    lowandslow Well-Known Member

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    is it fully manualised?
    Your not leaving it in a higher gear and trying to accelerate from a low speed relying on the torque converter to get the car moving?
     
  11. VZSSCHASE

    VZSSCHASE Member

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    i have re plumbed the cooling and placed the cooler closer to the radiator infront of the air condenser and have run the lines through the radiator to the cooler, so I have the feed line to bottom radiator top radiator to bottom cooler top cooler to return to transmission,i have setup a 16" thermos fan infront of cooler, I dropped the oil and checked condition since I only put the new stuff the other day and looks fine went for drive and the temp gauge still got hot it changed from 90'c to 135'c then back to 110'c to 145'c instantly and flickers, I have no idea why it gets so hot so quick even with the cooler and fan setup,who knows maybe its always been that temp with that stall now that I have a gauge its scary to see what it reads.its not manualised,has stage 2 shift kit and pressures been boosted on valve body for harder shifts,i normally leave it drive even when I race with power button on
    shift points change around 6800rpm and have no issues in the past,even driving on street or highway sits close to 2700rpms on 100kmh diff gears are 3.9s, what size cooler should I have? im not sure what more to do my other option is use this gearbox as a spare box with the new parts it has and buy a b&m street/strip transmission or hughes performance ones and see how that goes,cause im pretty much over this box coming in and out all the time.
     
  12. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    6800rpm is pretty high if pump mods and piston springs haven’t been upgraded. If the springs/pump haven’t been upgraded you’ll have trouble burning out the clutches over 5500rpm or so.

    Sounds like that temp gauge needs testing...

    Before buying on off th shelf replacement, id send your trans to somebody who knows them really well
     
  13. Brisbarnz

    Brisbarnz Active Member

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    Does the converter lock up? Temp switch will disable 4th when over heated. Reverts to third and should lock the conv to lower temp then engage 4th when cooler.
     
  14. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

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    As far as I was aware the temp switch only prevents the converter locking up when the trans is too cold. Locking the converter and going into the overdriven gear should lower the effects of fluid friction even more.

    I'm not sure I'm right though, definitly no expert on these but that was just my understanding
     
  15. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    After about 30kph or 40kph the fans don't help (as in they won't outflow the air that is being pushed through just by the speed of the car), they might even block airflow being in front in that case so you'd be better off putting them behind.

    Also, where are you taking your temperature reading from? Like how do you have the sensor set up too?
     
  16. VZSSCHASE

    VZSSCHASE Member

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    that's exacatly what it does, yeah its a lock up converter dominator 4000,my temp gauge is in the bottom deep pan sump on the side about half way down the sump.thanks for the output hopefully I will this out soon,with the thermos fan this is how its setup the engine has the factory twin thermos at front radiator air condenser that's fairly big anyway if anything that would be blocking air,trans cooler thermos fan infront of that,wonder if I just take the out the air condenser out.everything in the gearbox has been either upgraded or strengthened to the point the transmission shop cant think of anything else to do with it or think it could be,he is a reputable and built many gearboxes so it has him stumped to.im thinking of changing gauge with a needle type rather the digitial reading to.
     
  17. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    Thermo fans are designed to push air through at lower speeds.....It's at higher speeds, air flow comes into effect with cooling, rendering the fans unnecessary....So I think you're off the mark with your comment.

    Oh and make sure the fans are blowing from the outside to inside the engine bay
     
  18. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say they weren't, I only said they were effective up to a point. Some people might have had other experiences with that point, but in my experience 40ish KPH is correct (and yes, I've gone for a 20km drive without any fans in city traffic, so yes I'm totally off the mark).

    As for push through vs. suck through, if the fan is butted up against the radiator suck through doesn't have any chance at impeding air flow at high speed, again from my experience of the above. Also guessing that's why a lot of factory thermos are behind the radiators/aircon condensors instead of in front.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 1:00 PM
  19. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Don't take the condenser out if you ever want aircon again. It's not uncommoon for people to just route the trans cooler to behind the bumper off to the side. TBH that would be easier and more of a sure thing anyway than pulling out the condensor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 1:14 PM
  20. VZSSCHASE

    VZSSCHASE Member

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    does it sound like my converter is playing up even though I had it repaired? as I was driving it today and got to about 100c and dropped to 98c but when I put my foot down the temp went to 150c straight away then dropped back to 100c when I took foot off the pedal,i still had all gears and shifted nicely just stressing about this gauge ever since I installed it.i have a obd2 scan tool actron but when I went to view live data I couldn't see any trans temp reading or anything to do with transmission how do you read the transmission data on those scan tools?
     

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