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Losing our tradesmen

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by losh1971, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Come back to my old stomping ground for a week and while here I was talking to my old diff tech. I have only been away 6 years but in that time 2 highly skilled tradesman have retired others have died.

    A big place like Adelaide and blokes that build diffs are dying out. Makes me wonder if another 20 years if you will really struggle to find blokes that can do this more specialised type work.

    A highly skilled engineer Filthy Phil who was an absolute ace and made several parts for my bike has retired. My old caravan builder Larry at Roadmaster retired.
    I honestly think we are going to have a lack of the old school trademen in every trade in another 20 years. When you see builders now most just don't have the knowledge of the old ways and the proper old ways. I have seen it when I built my home only one builder really knew his stuff but he is approaching 60.
    I was a baker by trade. My daughter is a qualified baker, yet has next to no skill, compared to me, except in a few little areas. Where i can make anything and it come out great and all i need is a bench, some scales and my hands. I can mix cake batters on a bench. I honestly think that in 20 years really knowledgeable mechs will be a thing of the past. I just don't see the few apprentices coming through in whatever trade being taught like we used to. Love to hear other people's experience and thoughts. I also don't see that the Gov can do anything about it, because people that know their stuff are dying and their knowledge goes with them.
     
  2. keith reed

    keith reed Well-Known Member

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    When I did my apprenticeship as a carpenter that's what we were, carpenters, not formworkers or framing hands or wall fixers or any piecemeal part of the trade. We did everything from the beginning to the end. We boxed up and poured the foundations and floors, did the framing, lined the walls and did all the finishing work including hanging the doors and fitting all the hardware. It was different on Hydro schemes or the like in that all you would do was formwork. However you were employed as a carpenter and were still required to have papers proving that you were a carpenter or you would not get a job. The trade is now split up to include any part but not the whole part of the trade. If you asked a formworker to hang a door or do finishing work he would be as capable as any handyman. Not his fault because that is what the employer wants. Sad thing is that is only going to get worse with increased prefabrication off site and components made overseas.
     
  3. afstruct

    afstruct Well-Known Member

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    Yeap , all trades , all industries ,my trade aircraft structures use to be a constant flow / employment .
    Now the RAAF ( sorry for those that are = don't take offence but = lots have no idea) are the only constant = new employer .
    They should be concerned into the future .
    The disberleivers don't think there's a problem but others are really worried = the youngest working on hornets which will eventually transfer to JSF are in their late 20s/early 30s and have no other experience, other than hornets ,some are good and think ,others , no offence to them are absolute idiots .
     
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  4. Drawnnite

    Drawnnite Obviously Unsensible

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    Its very true in that people get zoned into certain parts of the trade.
    As someone with 2 Trades (Electrician then skilled up to an Instrument Tech) its very rare unless you get lucky to see a wide variety (which personally I was). Either places become specialised and maintain certain clients, or they are well known for certain jobs and keep getting those.
    And I guess its easier to say "hey these guys just do this part, so lets get them in for this and then someone else for that".
    Which is kind of true even now, I am in a specialist area and its very specific roles we do, but luckily in that narrow area we still have a broad scope so atleast there is some variety.

    Its a bit like asking someone to sharpen a drill bit (instead of just throwing it out).
    I was lucky in that I worked for a while in a metal fab/manufacturing place with some awesome fitters that taught these small skills (and many others along similar lines).

    Unfortunately its the way the world is going. Same as globalisation. Yeah its good in the short term, people make good money, but give it time and it'll cause troubles.
    Want an example of a trade that died out but suddenly was wanted again, check out the music industry going back to vinyl records.....
     
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  5. afstruct

    afstruct Well-Known Member

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    Yeap , I'm spoilt worked on lots of different and industry.
    Lol , learnt to sharpen drills on a linisher = half the time cut better than a new one , especially drilling **** like 17/7ph drill and then ream to final size = young bloke going =how = and to a tolerance of a few thousands .
    Reamers forget.!!!!!
    For those that are only metric = roughly 0.025 " though = 1mm
    And sometimes have tolerance of 0.003" thou !!!!!!
    I might add drilling these is not using a lathe or other crap ,is mostly free hand = so huge variables involved.

    SO Lots of experience learned and gained!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
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  6. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    Got to laugh at this comment Losh......Then again, maybe compared to Tassie, yep it's big:)

    From my trade, I see the younger generation not really wanting to learn....Phone to the head, slight cut, got to sook and go home, something over a particular weight, can't lift by themselves, not using the brain,relying on a computer....etc etc...Makes it difficult to pass on years of knowledge

    I also see replacing with brand new easier than determining what caused the failure to begin with and rebuilding that part so it doesn't occur again.
     
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  7. Fu Manchu

    Fu Manchu Well-Known Member

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    Same in my trade. Gradual decline in not only experienced people, but up comers lack significant training.
    Those doing trade certificates are a shadow of the those trained 20 years ago. Go back 30 years, and the training was solid with good uptake of apprenticeships. It created the industry we have today.

    Now accountants have the say and do not value knowledge or skill as much as the bottom line and profits.

    Few businesses in my trade now support apprenticeships or tertiary qualifications. Yep, they often take young people on and "train" them via supplier propaganda rather than pumping that kind of training into someone who has a foundation of understanding who can make informed decisions on supplementary, informal training.

    As a lecturer, the standards we are forced to teach to are compromises on top of compromises, geared to passing people, not teaching people. More time spent doing paperwork than teaching.

    This is sadly the way for most trades.
     
  8. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Ironically, greater knowledge & skill leads to greater profits.

    Coz published pass rate = greater sales.

    Sadly, the modern education industry is all about income generation rather than education.
     
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  9. gtrboyy

    gtrboyy Well-Known Member

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    Was surprised a few months back looking talking to some apprentices them trying to tell me the ls1 engine/auto I was looking at to buy is good,mileage,car it came out of etc.

    Ended up correcting them on the BS they tried to spin for a sale to them then hassling me to work on their unfinished projects that they're stuck on.WTF!!!
     
  10. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    Every child gets a prize. :)
    I joined the RAAF as a trainee radar technician. 3/4 of the way through a 9 month course, I was 'failed' with a 89% exam result, and then told to transfer to another category.
     
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  11. the_boozer

    the_boozer no more VK

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    Who would recommend to their children to be a tradesman? I sure as **** wouldn't I've been a tradesman for 25 years none of my mates are happy either. Sit on your arse be a been counter they seam to be happy . Not enough rewards for working your arseoff and getting covered in **** everyday don't worry that everything you do must be correct if you fucksomething up people could die . Along with an hour free overtime every day.
     
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  12. Dayvo

    Dayvo Because i can

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    I was an apprentice fitter and machinist in the 70s. Like afstruct i was taught to sharpen drills and we were not only marked on the skill but you had to complete it in a certain time limit. If you didn't know how to do it the correct way to sharpen them you could make the hole bigger. We also had various templates of different shapes which we had to turn down on a lathe . Don't forget that this was the 70s and we didn't punch the settings into a computer then sit back and let the machine do all the work.
     
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  13. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Get another job 25 years of misery its time you stop the bleed and find some happiness.
     
  14. rtmpgt

    rtmpgt Active Member

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    I'd say that the reason why people aren't picking up the trades is there's this societal expectation that in order to succeed you need to go to Uni. Now, I did go to uni for about 3/4 of a course, and I can tell you, unless you're aiming to be an engineer, doctor, lawyer or scientist, there's really no need to go to uni.

    I also blame the media. I mean, I studied that ****, I know the whole purpose of modern media is to split society into groups to make it easier to sell them ideas. Ever since 2016, when this whole IdPol thing went overboard, we have SJWs on both sides of politics fighting over each other, thinking that for some reason they're victims. Those who have their faces buried in the Australian think they're being discriminated against for being white, those who bury their noses in Vice (owned by the same company as the Oz) think that Straight White Men are the source for all their problems. When I called both sides of the media cycle on this bullshit when I was in uni, I got rage from pretty much everyone except one lecturer... Who knew exactly what the **** was going on. At that point, I dropped out of uni and got a full-time job in my field. Still work there to this day.

    The media's job is to give people a distraction, to make people think they're a victim of some sort so they can be more easily sold to. Truth be told, the death of tradies isn't because people are losing faith in the trades, the reason is that people feel that putting on an apprentice will hurt them and said apprentices feel they're owed the world for being able to just sharpen a tool. Dude. You're a greenhorn, of course you're going to get paid jack for literally sweeping the shop floor, and your shitty boss isn't doing you any good by only focusing on his profits. There's more to be made than money. Craftsmanship is infinitely valuable.

    I agree, Modern universities/educational institutions are all about checking boxes and passing as many students as possible, The whole point of unis is to make a profit. But keep in mind that this is also true for people taking on apprentices. They think that they're going to get the perfect person when they take on an apprentice. Of course you're not. That dude's going to know jack **** about rebuilding diffs. That's why you need to teach them. You need to be a leader, and give them a good reason to follow you. When you pour time into a person, you're going to get money in return eventually.

    The only way we're going to solve this **** is if we start to see leaders in the industry take people on and train the next generation of craftsmen, and for those kids to understand that yes, you will fail. No, you are not special. The only way to become exceptional is to be exceptional. The only way to encourage exceptional people to shine is to help them to become that way. Master craftsmen only became masters because they had masters themselves, and they learnt to get with the time. The modern CNC machinist has more capability than an old-school machinist who manually operated a three-axis bridgeport, but it still takes that bridgeport knowledge to know how to use a CNC.

    And for ****'s sake. Be the role model you want your apprentices to be. Don't want them to be pusscakes? Stop being a pusscake yourself.
     
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  15. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    We have enough x uni students with a degree flipping burgers at Maccas..
     
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  16. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    I've been in my trade for at least this long and I'm more than happy to be covered in crap, working my ass off and copping crap from idiots that don't know squat....

    Working 1hrs overtime everyday for nicks.....PFFT.....Try working a 50 hour week, getting paid for a 38 hr week....On top of that, getting a phone call at 2 A.M, because someone has a flat tyre and firing up a petrol powered compressor outside some snobs house at that hour and the abuse that follows.

    Simple fact is, without them, what the hell are people going to do, if they need a house built, a car repaired or alikes....Take it to the scrap yard and buy a new one? Or buy an established house and hope like heck nothing ever goes wrong?

    It seems you didn't think too far ahead before posting
     
  17. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    No noise past 8pm in built up areas by law, so I don't blame them, tell them to put the spare on. If no spare tell them wait till 7am.
     
  18. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Yep and what happens if some bastard drills all four tyres on your car in the middle of the night and you need to leave for work at 6am?? Yes it happened to me in case you are wondering.
     
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  19. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    That sucks, didn't they have a screwdriver or knife?
     
  20. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    FIIK, maybe I could have have asked them if i caught the cunts in action.....;);)
     

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