Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Missing on 246 -> Jammed wide duration VVT Actuator?

MikeEd

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Age
36
Location
Melbourne
Members Ride
MY 9.5 VE Dual Fuel Commodore
Hi

Has anyone seen the VVT actuators jammed open?



Here is what I have done


VE Dual Fuel LY7 (MY 9.5)

Running rough even from idle and activating p0302 p0304 and p0306
I’ve noticed jack all on the vacuum brakes

New timing chain with guides did not help.

Tested leak down and was mint...

Code mean cyclinders appears to be missing ( I think important to note does not actually mean missing for a fact thou)

Had all intake off and checks looms for injectors and coils. Switched them around and made no difference. Check looms all from bat to injectors to lpg controller then ECU. Same from ecu to coils and ground (both sides).

Here all the old fuddy duddies would just blame ECU; very much doubt it; more old timers can’t understand them so default cause.

Can’t say not ecu, but unlikely since coils run own power source from fuse box, then only triggered so therefore tiny load on ECU outputs and probably internal voltage rail for all 6. Plugs all look the same, and normal carboned up for long idle. Nothing outside ordinary.

Injectors run NPN so there should be no commonality...

So don’t think it’s electrical, and it doesn’t seem mechanically terminal within cyclinders.


I’ve noticed the intake runners to the good side are spotless, the bad side runners have a film of oil.

So I suspect 246 are not pulling a decent vacuum. Blocked of all vacuum lines and checked for exhaust pressure. Made no difference.

Checked cam timing and looks correct.


I’ve pulled all the cam sensors and actuator’s solenoids, cleaned and swapped sides. No difference.

Have also noted tighter fit of the solenoids, and have also ordered a vacuum guage...

So...

Only thing l really have left has 246 vvt actuators jammed with a wider duration in place? That could cause the poor vacuum on only one side...

Has anyone seen such before; how much of a bastard are they to clean out possibly fix?

I could just shove airline down there but I have no idea what’s inside all the oriphaces and possibly delicate parts.
 

MikeEd

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Age
36
Location
Melbourne
Members Ride
MY 9.5 VE Dual Fuel Commodore
Might try draining tank (fun) so codes don’t get set and see if actual miss or ecu thinking it is a miss
 

VTS5

TechJunkie
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
1,310
Reaction score
216
Points
63
Location
Sth.East\Melb
Members Ride
VE OMEGA 3.6L Dual Fuel
Leave it in kerosene over night then wash it with degreaser, dry it ,dip it in good clean oil,install.
 

lmoengnr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
4,517
Reaction score
11,131
Points
113
Location
Sunbury Vic.
Members Ride
MY12.5 Maloo R8, MY12 Redline ute, Magnum 224
Cam phaser failed internally and stuck in an (un)commanded position?
 

_R_J_K_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
5,837
Reaction score
1,155
Points
113
Members Ride
Zenki S14
Might try draining tank (fun) so codes don’t get set and see if actual miss or ecu thinking it is a miss
What is draining the tank supposed to achieve?

Assume it's factory dual fuel and not aftermarket? Did you swap the VVT actuators from side to side too or is that last on your list? The actuators themselves aren't that expensive as a replacement, so if you come to the conclusion that it's the issue it would probably be better to replace it than to try cleaning it out and possibly have it fail again.
 

MikeEd

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Age
36
Location
Melbourne
Members Ride
MY 9.5 VE Dual Fuel Commodore
A
 
Last edited:

MikeEd

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Age
36
Location
Melbourne
Members Ride
MY 9.5 VE Dual Fuel Commodore
Cam phaser failed internally and stuck in an (un)commanded position?
Yeah that is exactly what I’m picking. Solenoid to the cam phaser actuator are clean and been swapped. Looking at how to make sure the mechanics are not jammed up and are actually returning to zero.

I haven’t really seen a easy way to get in and clean those things out thou. Don’t really want to just shove air gun up the hole... nor let timing go and remove from the front of the cams.

What is draining the tank supposed to achieve?

Assume it's factory dual fuel and not aftermarket? Did you swap the VVT actuators from side to side too or is that last on your list? The actuators themselves aren't that expensive as a replacement, so if you come to the conclusion that it's the issue it would probably be better to replace it than to try cleaning it out and possibly have it fail again.
Solenoids have already been swapped around
There is a precondition to p030x codes that it must have at least 11% on the fuel level. Clear codes, run again and see if still missses when those codes are not getting set.
 
Last edited:

lmoengnr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
4,517
Reaction score
11,131
Points
113
Location
Sunbury Vic.
Members Ride
MY12.5 Maloo R8, MY12 Redline ute, Magnum 224
Yeah that is exactly what I’m picking. Solenoid to the cam phaser actuator are clean and been swapped. Looking at how to make sure the mechanics are not jammed up and are actually returning to zero.

I haven’t really seen a easy way to get in and clean those things out thou. Don’t really want to just shove air gun up the hole... nor let timing go and remove from the front of the cams.
I replaced an intake cam phaser on an Astra Z18XER, it fixed the problem. I wanted to find out what failed.
The phaser was a sealed unit, so I used a rotary table and a milling machine to remove the cover.
Inside is a one piece, spring steel seal that formed 5 cavities for the oil pressure to act on both sides of 5 vanes to vary the valve timing.
20160218_193112.jpg
20160218_194722.jpg


I'm just assuming the V6 phasers are similar, it was a known problem on the Astra engine, haven't heard of similar problems with the V6.

PS. You could probably consider me an 'old fuddy duddy'....
 

greenacc

Searching for the billion
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
5,934
Reaction score
1,460
Points
113
Location
Sydney
Members Ride
VE Berlina
I replaced an intake cam phaser on an Astra Z18XER, it fixed the problem. I wanted to find out what failed.
The phaser was a sealed unit, so I used a rotary table and a milling machine to remove the cover.
Inside is a one piece, spring steel seal that formed 5 cavities for the oil pressure to act on both sides of 5 vanes to vary the valve timing.

PS. You could probably consider me an 'old fuddy duddy'....
So what did you find, why did it fail?
 

lmoengnr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
4,517
Reaction score
11,131
Points
113
Location
Sunbury Vic.
Members Ride
MY12.5 Maloo R8, MY12 Redline ute, Magnum 224
So what did you find, why did it fail?
Check the second pic, the inner steel seal that forms the 5 'cavities' for the vanes, is supposed to be 'one piece'.
 
Top