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modern vehicle safety tech...

Discussion in 'ZB Holden Commodore (2018)' started by arsevee, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    So, there's a bucketload of safety & driver assist equipment on the ZBs, even in the base-models, so here's a 'poser' for you all:

    Are there more safety devices on modern vehicle because people are worse drivers?,

    or

    Are people becoming worse drivers because there's more safety devices in new vehicles..?

    :)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. burnz

    burnz dah dut dut da dah

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    i think old school driver better, you had to learn how to handle a car without the safty gadgets.
     
  3. gluten3

    gluten3 Member

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    I would say people are now worse because of looking at mobile phones/GPS et cetera.
    Secondly most people now driving vertically-stretched station wagons (aka SUV) or dual-cab pickup trucks, with higher centre of gravity.
     
  4. VS_Pete

    VS_Pete Donating Member

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    I hate looking at my rear mirror as just about everybody seems to be slowing down at the last moment.
     
  5. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    Don't get started on f--king mobile phones... :mad:

    Yeah - you have to keep one eye on the car in front as you're slowing and one on the idiot behind 'cos he's texting...:confused:
     
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  6. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Your question is structured like a chicken and egg scenario :p but it’s one tied around human factor engineering taking a phrase from Air Crash Investigators.

    So consider the visions of fluffy pillows popping out of the steering/dash/seat/roof to protect you, ABS brakes helping you steer out of harms way, lane keeping assistance helping you avoid a head on, radar cruise control making it easier to send that sms on the freeway. All these visions help to alter driver perceptions and mindset so that the fear of death is further removed from reality.

    Just like aircraft, where it has been acknowledged auto flight systems have resulted in pilots loosing basic skills and becoming too dependant on such systems, motor vehicles suffer from the same human factor issues plaguing airlines. Sadly there is not the same focus within the automotive world as there is within the aviation world.

    How else could rational people drive while texting/checking social media accounts/video blogging all while behind the wheel. If that doesn’t put fear into the lack of real comprehension of cause and effect and the lack of skill and ability of today’s current drivers, then nothing will.

    But don’t take my word for it, have a read of Ralf Nadar’s Unsafe at any speed. Even though it was written in the mid sixties, and look at human factor engineering, it looks at the behaviours of auto manufacturers and it is still relevant today. You can then decide for yourself if you trust the auto manufacturers safety features will make you a better driver and whether such systems actually look after your safety (hint takata grenades definitely don’t).
     
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  7. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    It's the constant drive to make vehicles safer by reducing the human element which is the greatest cause of collisions. It doesn't really reflect on today's drivers - rather, I think it reflects on today's driving environment with more cars, greater traffic congestion, more complex road rules and the hugely increased performance potential of modern cars. The sales advantage of more gimmicks than your competitors comes into consideration, too.
    Drivers who learn to drive modern vehicles with these devices will probably tend to rely on them and never achieve a truly high standard of driving skill. Consider the fact that so many drivers today can only drive automatics and are totally flummoxed by a manual transmission. I honestly believe that older drivers who learnt on manual cars without any safety equipment were probably more skilful in their prime, but age naturally sees those skills deteriorate, in some cases, disastrously.
     
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  8. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    I'm not at the 'rely' stage, but I do miss the adaptive cruise control when I'm not in the Golf... :)
     
  9. StrayKiwi

    StrayKiwi Active Member

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    I learned to drive in an old car with no automation and a mind of it's own. You needed to actively keep it on the straight and narrow. That experience alone taught me the level of concentration required to drive safely. The second thing that helped me personally was a course in defensive driving, and the techniques used in scanning for threats I still use to this day.

    None of the tech in my ZB makes me feel any safer, if anything it's still a bit too trigger happy and this leads to complacency. Keeping with Skylarking's aviation analogy, there was an accident where a crew stalled and crashed their airliner because they'd pulled the circuit breaker on the stall warning horn as it had a habit of going off all the time and so was pretty much useless to them. So the one time when they did stall the jet, they had no idea until it was far too late to recover.
     
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  10. MattSAU2XR8

    MattSAU2XR8 Active Member

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    Lane keep assist on most new cars is similarly useless. Imagine if we could fit a counter that recorded how may useful corrections the system made as opposed to how many useless corrections.... Since most people don't actually run their cars off the road and into trees, and most systems make corrections at least once per km in cars that I've driven the ration must be at least 100,000 to zero against including the system. Then add in the extra fatigue due to fighting the system and in some cases listening to audible alarms and it starts to look very pointless...
     
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  11. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    Some manufacturers do it better than others; Tesla has got it nailed, apparently MB do it pretty well, as does BMW, but the first time I drove a car with active lane-keeping, I thought the car was 'tram-tracking'... This was on a drive from Newcastle to The GC, at night, in rain...

    Did it help.

    Did it f--k.

    o_O
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  12. Pablito

    Pablito Well-Known Member

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    I blame the likes of ANCAP.
    They added crash avoidance systems as part of their safety rating assessment a few years back.
    So now car companies have to cram their cars full of this 'safety' **** otherwise they can't get a top safety rating.
    So I think its more to do with this and not to do with people's driving skills getting worse.
     
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  13. mpower

    mpower Well-Known Member

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    per capita road deaths have gone down. so does it matter? also in 20 years time, cars will be driving themselves.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year
     
  14. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ANCAP should have kept the star rating system backward compatible so we could directly compare older vehicles to newer vehicles. But in their corporate stupidity, they seemed fixated on 5 stars being the top level so made it impossible to compare second hand vehicles.

    I’d have preferred that they added a second star rating scale for active safety systems (stuff like seatbelt reminder, AEB, pedestrian detection) you know the stuff that isn’t directly related to reducing crash forces on a human body (crumple zones, seat belts, seat belt tensioners, etc). That way the first star rating is backward comparable and the second star rating for cars having such features is also comparable for such cars. The two stars would give a clearer picture of expected safety.

    Having said that, I’d probably ignore much of the second star rating because active safety features don’t always work as intended and third party real world testing is next to impossible. As is, pedestrian detection systems don’t work very well.
     
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