Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

New Commodore - 2018 First Look

Discussion in 'News/Updates' started by Sabbath', Oct 26, 2016.

  1. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    578
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    So you're suggesting that the far more advanced VE and VF won't count for anything in the minds of prospective buyers and they'll relate the next Commodore to all the pre-VE's, despite what will eventually be over eleven years production of a much more modern and recent vehicle?

    Doubt it.
     
  2. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    Regal Peackock VF SS-V Redline Wagoon
    If you had preconceptions based on VB through VZ about cheap outdated interiors with clunky switchgear that falls off in your hands, looking in or even spending a cab-ride in a VE isn't going to change that preconception. It's more like 1996 than 2006 in there ... because in Commodore-land, 1996 was more 1988 with a few swoopy-but-mismatched bits of plastic applied in an attempt to give the impression the door-trim follows the line of the dash ...

    And if you drove a VE, chances are it'd have that HFV6; now yes, if you had chaff that needed threshing I can concede you could get enthusiastic, but otherwise ...

    I don't think we'd have bought a VF, if it had a VE interior; not when spending ~$60k on a car.
     
  3. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    1,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Location:
    Perth WA
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV Z Series M6
    Badge snobs are badge snobs.
     
  4. Brettly-2008

    Brettly-2008 Active Member

    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Location:
    Bunbury
    Members Ride:
    WM Statesman
    Wow you really have a jaded view of Holden's ability to create appealing interiors. Last time I checked all interiors are plastic and many, many are made from cheaper poor-quality materials than little old Holden operating on a limited budget. Crisp, attractive instruments have always been a Holden strong point since VP and fit and finish became a focus from VT in 97. 'Affordable' Toyotas and Nissans et al had horrible interiors back in the 90s even with their budgets. It took Japan years to take interiors seriously and the Koreans have only started getting it right recently. I've driven two AMGs in the past 12 months and while the quality is higher (it'd bloody want to be for the price!), a lot of it is perceived quality and there's still nasty plastic and sharp edges to be found out of site. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're very much in the minority thinking Holden interiors have always been dated and poor quality. While we're being opinionated about interior design, I feel the VF is one of the least resolved of any Commodore -too many conflicting influences and materials. Ditto with the outside.
     
  5. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    Regal Peackock VF SS-V Redline Wagoon
    I'm not a fan of the VF exterior ... well, no, that's not fully true; more accurate to say I don't think it's as good as the VE was on release.
    The VF is a bit of a mishmash, but for some reason I don't mind it despite that; main thing is the buttons feel right, all the minor controls have a proper look & feel to them. The indicator stalk doesn't feel like it's going to fall off (OK the VS never had ANY problem with any of the controls on the indicator, but it felt like it was about to snap from when it was brand new).

    Don't forget that "affordable" Toyotas and Nissans were considerably cheaper to buy than Commodores!

    One other issue ... this is about perception, not reality. Negative perception takes a long time to fade. I knew a number of people who claimed they'd never buy a Nissan in the late 90's, despite that being when they were at the peak of their longevity/reliability, because Datsuns were "so crap". It takes a long time to go away.
     
  6. VSHeaven

    VSHeaven Member

    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    VY Acclaim S2
    This is a big call for Holden. I certainly don't think current Commodore enthusiasts will endear themselves to the thought of an overseas sourced FWD, 4 cylinder/ V6 hatchback with a Commodore badge on it sitting in their driveway. Change can be a hard thing to deal with at times, especially when we get older. Since it's primarily aimed at fleet sales it will take time for the retail Holden buyer to be won over. At this point in time for me I am happy to buy a 2017 VF and treasure it. I, along with everyone else, will deal with the 2018 model and it's variants when they appear. Expectations will be high, and there is a lot at stake.
     
    Smithston likes this.
  7. GKW

    GKW Donating Member

    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    2008 VE SSV & 1999 VT SS SII
    Can someone say Citroen CX.....just needs the wheel spats. Maybe HSV can provide that go fast part.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. convas

    convas Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Members Ride:
    Corvette z51 C4
    Well I suppose you could take it one step further and drop the Holden badge as well, after all there will be nothing Holden left once the VF dies, may as well just call them Opels or Chev's or what ever they really are.

    Personally I don't really care what they call it, no V8, no RWD ...... not for me, maybe for the wife but not for me.
     
  9. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    578
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    That's a pretty narrow area to base your perceptions on - the interiors. I'll agree that, prior to VT, Commodore interiors looked and felt very cheap and nasty. Even the Calais couldn't hide its terribly basic roots.

    But from VT on, I believe Holden started to realise that the interior played as much a part in influencing buyers as external styling. Yes, heaps of plastic, but what doesn't today, and it DIDN'T look cheap and nasty. You must have experienced some duds if you had switchgear failing or breaking. I've had three Commodores prior to my VY, and none of them displayed any inclination to break switches. The VY just didn't break anything (including speed limits but that's another story).

    I'll also accept that the VE interior was easily the worst part of that model and WAS cheap and nasty - difficult to understand really in light of the immense development cost. But the VF has lifted the Commodore on that score tremendously. While some models are a bit busy and there is a bit too much interior chrome trim, I'd have a VF anyday if it suited my needs.

    When I posted earlier, I was referring to the fact that the modern Commodore has an advanced quad-cam V6 (yeah, there are better, but it's still an advanced design), 6 speed manual or auto, fully independent suspension, four wheel discs, advanced primary and secondary safety features including an immensely strong body shell. All hardly prehistoric stuff and certainly in keeping with modern design.

    You're being bloody hard on Holdens, yet you own one. Why?
     
    zero_tolerance likes this.
  10. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    Regal Peackock VF SS-V Redline Wagoon
    ^ Because I'm not a one-eyed fanboi, and I know the reality of the situation.

    An old model doesn't have to be any good for an objective buyer to buy a current one, when it's improved. But I'd suggest a LOT of buyers aren't subjective; the Commodore badge has a residual odour of low quality about it, and they should've taken the opportunity to park it.
     
  11. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    578
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    Well, I'm not one-eyed either, but your explanation makes no sense at all. "Reality of the situation"- what does that mean, exactly?

    Obviously, you're not compelled to answer if you don't want to - that's your prerogative. But to **** can a make, yet own one of the latest models, seems odd. Your opinion that the Commodore badge has a residual odour of low quality about it" reeks of the cultural cringe that Australia is so well known for. Ïts Australian so it can't be as good as an import. What ****. I had a brand new Mark V Golf which I offloaded before the warranty ran out. It was an unreliable dog with more faults than all my other cars over the years put together. Don't preach to me about poor quality Australian products. Other countries are quite capable of manufacturing poor quality too.
     
  12. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    Regal Peackock VF SS-V Redline Wagoon
    I was, as I stated, specifically talking about general perception and the Commodore model.

    Plenty of people bought 1.4 twincharged DSG Tiguans a year ago in the solid belief that what they were buying was of higher quality than any Commodore.
    My comments about interiors relate to that being what you see first; VX dashes, when VX's were new, weren't going to make anyone look a bit deeper if they already thought Commodores were garbage.

    'Cultural cringe' - yes, that's exactly my point! Commodore badge is considered cringeworthy!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  13. Smithston

    Smithston New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Members Ride:
    Vt ss 5.0
    Ford did the right thing in letting the Falcon retire. Calling this new car a Commodore is like Virat Kholi changing his name to Don Bradman. It's the last Australian car. Let it rest in peace
     
    UTE042_NZ, commodore665 and VS_Pete like this.
  14. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

    Messages:
    6,348
    Likes Received:
    1,701
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2004
    Location:
    SE Suburbs, Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VZ LX8 Adventra, VP SS
    Entirely agree

     
    VS_Pete likes this.
  15. Tommy Gun101

    Tommy Gun101 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Members Ride:
    VE commodore SSV S1
    We just have to do a LS Conversion
     
    Chilli_Red and convas like this.
  16. MartinJS

    MartinJS New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Location:
    Leeton
    Members Ride:
    VZ Calais 3.6L
    Bit of a shame really, this will only be a Commodore by name, Commodore, like Falcon was an Australian built car, Ford at least retired the Falcon name. Do the Aussie Commodore justice and retire the name!
     
    Tommy Gun101 likes this.
  17. MartinJS

    MartinJS New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Location:
    Leeton
    Members Ride:
    VZ Calais 3.6L
    Might have something to do with the Commodore being BUILT in Australia, want to get technical the First ever FJ Holden was a modified American or some such design!
    I spent over ten year working in an Aussie car building company, owned Valiants, Holdens (HJ 4 door Monaro and Ford Falcons, even an Aussie built Magna and Camry. Most had some overseas input but all had one thing in common! Aussie built, Commodore from since it first rolled of the Assembly line was Aussie built. New car has almost nothing Aussie about it, can the name and move on!
    :-(
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  18. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

    Messages:
    6,348
    Likes Received:
    1,701
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2004
    Location:
    SE Suburbs, Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VZ LX8 Adventra, VP SS
    To be fair the original Commodore did share body panels and most of the interior however the platform was significantly improved over the old V-Car out of Europe. Opel didn't quite believe that Holden engineers did manage to break one in half during Australian testing (true on both counts!). Shocks and springs along with the shock towers/mounts and unibody structure was totally re-designed and the drive line bore no resemblance to the euro rubbish.

    Aussie built isn't the problem IMO. No V8 is probably surmountable but no TTV6 and FWD or **** FWD based AWD makes it a totally different car.
     
  19. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VF Evoke Sportwagon
    I hate to be the fly in the ointment but I really reckon the model name is unimportant. What I am more angry about is the continued use of the Holden brand. Let's face it, it's no longer Holden at heart because no Holdens will be made here for the foreseeable future. I'm an old fart and other old farts like me will remember that part of the Holden mantra that was emblazoned into our hearts..."Holden: Australia's OWN car". Us oldies can remember back to when we were kids having our hearts swell with pride to know "our car" was made here and being exported to other countries. I well remember one of the Saudi kings coming to Australia in around 1970 and wanting to buy a swag of HR Holden sedans and wagons (because he had a few in his fleet and just loved them) only to be told they were no longer in production. I think Holden bought what he wanted from dealers who had them in their second hand yards and then they did a full resto for the Saudi king. I'll have to do my research...I know there was an old "Sun News Pictorial" story about it because I remember reading it as a kid. Anyway...you know what I'm getting at...Holden was always our pride and joy. Yes...it was run by toffs in Detroit...big deal. It was still our car.

    Now all that manufacturing expertise and our ability to build a world-class car will be dead in the water. The final VF is an excellent motor car...the Americans love it, even though it sports a bowtie badge and has a different name.

    No I think they should retire the Holden name. It's just not going to be Holden as we knew it anymore.

    As to the manufacturing loss. It's more than tragic, it's strategically crazy! For those of you who know this part, forgive the history lesson... Back at the start of WWII the Federal Government approached a then very-young newly appointed CEO of Holden (Larry Hartnett...who was to become Sir Laurence Hartnett) and asked him to ramp down vehicle production and start the production of war materiel (yes...that's how you spell the word for war goods). Within three weeks the Holden plants were ready to churn out tank parts, aircraft bits, howitzers, various arms, lenses and binoculars and even airframes. Now scoot foward to some future date...say 2020. Say there's a limited war on in our region and some country like Indonesia has cut off our sealanes. Left on our own with no supplies from the US, EU or Japan what are we going to be able to make to use against our aggressors? Wooden sticks? Boomerangs? My God what were Tony Rabbit and Joe Sloppy thinking when they dared Holden to shut up shop!
     
  20. Stroppy

    Stroppy Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VF Evoke Sportwagon
    BTW...here's an excellent documentary (in two parts) about the story of Holden up to the introduction of the VL. It's an old ABC doco but it was very well made and features an interview with Sir Laurence Hartnett. Pay particular attention to the retired NSW automotive union boss. He says many prophetic things about the future of manufacturing in Australia ...and this was back in 1986.
    Link:


    (After playing part 1 part 2 should automatically play next. Both episodes approximately 30 minutes long)
     
    commodore665 and Calaber like this.

Share This Page