New Grange, Is it the BMW 5 series killer?

[Jamie_87]

According to testers from both WHEELS AND MOTOR, the VE Commodore drives BETTER than any current BMW. Comparing the VE to a VY or VZ is silly. The VE is a completely different car, this is quality that we have never seen in a Commodore before. The VE range is only let down against BMW in the driveline, with the engine, trans and gearbox.

The HSV is another step up with MRC.

As for build quality etc. this is why Holden bought a 5 series BMW, to try and equal or better the build quality of the BMW.

fair enough mate, ive read the articles they produced, but it stil dosnt lead me to believe that a $40k car is equal to its BMW eqivalent which is like double its price. Fair enough the chassis/suspension might be equivalent but like you said the drive line isnt, and the drivline choice usualy makes or breaks the car. The 3.0L 6 in the 130i puts out 195kw, yet the alloytec is a 3.6 and cant beat the 200w mark. BMW is using 5sp autos as standard yet VE stil comes with 4 sp in base models and up to 7sp in the saloons.

I geuss ill just have to wait and test drive a VE myself to see how it compares to the bmw equivalent.

 

[sixshooter]

Vn2nv, nothing personal here...but all is ee is you praising the hell out of a car that you don't own, havent properly tested. You are comparing it to another car that you have never driven. Sorry, but magazine reports can't confirm nor deny any true readings on the 2 cars, only personal driving of the cars by you can say truly what is best for you.

I have driven just a nice high end 5 series, to me in comaprison to the VE it drove and felt alot better than any holden i have ever driven as well as any ford(although the GT-P is a brilliant ride). However, this is just my thoughts, i am sure people who have driven both cars will probably have different views to me.

I truly understand where your coming from with that Minux... I remember my first ride in a BMW that was way back in the eighties when the commodore was in it's infancy ! BMW make one hell of a car... it wasn't even a M-Series !:thumbsup:

 

[Evman]

The 3.0L 6 in the 130i puts out 195kw, yet the alloytec is a 3.6 and cant beat the 200w mark. BMW is using 5sp autos as standard yet VE stil comes with 4 sp in base models and up to 7sp in the saloons.

If you're gonna start quoting figures, quote them all. The 130i is a $65,000 car. A $65g sports car at that. The 6 cylinder Commodores are primarily a family car, and that means low cost. If that means using the 4spd auto to help keep costs down, so be it. So what if it doesn't have silky smooth shifts, or doesn't "learn" the way you drive. It changes the gears well enough, and does it's job. It also costs a lot less than $65,000. Compare a sports car to a sports car (ie 130i with the closelly priced Clubsport). Compare a low cost family car with a low cost family car (ie 4spd auto V6 Commo with...wait, BMW don't do low cost do they...)

 

[Evman]

I think people are looking at this from far too close. Step back and look at the bigger picture. Before the VE, if a Commodore was compared to a 5 series, or indead, a BMW full stop, the Commo would lose so badly it's not funny. However, even if the VE Commo isn't as good as the BMW's, it's still up to a level that it can actually be compared, and that's what's important. So what if it loses out! It's still a massive improvement!

 

[Evman]

that was way back in the eighties when the commodore was in it's infancy ! BMW make one hell of a car... it wasn't even a M-Series !:thumbsup:

I too have driven an older BMW, this one was acutally a 1990 M5. What a bucket of crap! Sure, it went hard, but level of finish? It was falling to pieces around me, literally. I stepped out of that and into my VN, and I can gladly say the Commodore, with 150,000km more on the clock, and costing a fraction of the price, has stood up a lot, and I mean a lot, better. Similarly, have been in a mid 90's 5 series, and was severly dissapointed. Yeah, you're right, they handle well, but there's a lot more to a car than that. A hell of a lot more.

 

[JD]

I too have driven an older BMW, this one was acutally a 1990 M5. What a bucket of crap! Sure, it went hard, but level of finish? It was falling to pieces around me, literally. I stepped out of that and into my VN, and I can gladly say the Commodore, with 150,000km more on the clock, and costing a fraction of the price, has stood up a lot, and I mean a lot, better. Similarly, have been in a mid 90's 5 series, and was severly dissapointed. Yeah, you're right, they handle well, but there's a lot more to a car than that. A hell of a lot more.

you are right on the money evman, you compare a old commodore to a old beamer and the commodore will win in terms of its condition for its age, euro car are notorius for being unrelible when the get older so having all the power and handling isn't going to do **** if you on the side of the road waiting for a tow cos the old girl broke down.

 

[1991_Vn2nV]

Vn2nv, nothing personal here...but all is ee is you praising the hell out of a car that you don't own, havent properly tested. You are comparing it to another car that you have never driven. Sorry, but magazine reports can't confirm nor deny any true readings on the 2 cars, only personal driving of the cars by you can say truly what is best for you.

I have driven just a nice high end 5 series, to me in comaprison to the VE it drove and felt alot better than any holden i have ever driven as well as any ford(although the GT-P is a brilliant ride). However, this is just my thoughts, i am sure people who have driven both cars will probably have different views to me.

Thats all fair enough... but I dont see why I have to own a car to be able to praise it?

The fact is there is no way I could drive either the VE or the 5 series the way they are driven in tests by Wheels and Motor... Im not suggesting I know more than anyone else but I do believe these people know what they are talking about and they push these cars harder than 90% of the people that actually buy these cars. The only info I can personally go by is what I read, and so that is the input that I give.

 

[noah_73]

M5 = $230,000. Grange around $100,000. I would be livid if I paid that much more for a car and it didn't have more bells and whistles and it wasn't better. Also, not that people looking in that price bracket would car too much, look at the potential for depreciation. If a 2000 model M5 is now worth even an optomistic $50,000 that is a loss of $150,000.

 

[klaw81]

$50,000 is VERY optimistic - I can't find one for less than $70,000! They're mostly around $100,000. But let's face it, if you've got enough moolah for an M5, you're not real concerned about resale.

I think most of us can agree on the answer to the original question - no, the new Grange is not a 5-series killer. I reckon even the cheapest 5-series would still have equal (if not better) quality and refinement than the Grange, even if it's a little slower. The current M5 would leave the Grange in the dust.

But Grange Vs 2000 model M5? That's more of an even contest.....