New Monaro in 2018 ?

[RWD4ever]

Not designed and built in Australia by Australians, not a Monaro....

Actually, it was designed in Australia, and the prototype knocked together in Australia ... but it will probably be made in China.

 

[Tsunamix]

Nup. The first "Torana" was a rebadged and little changed Vauxhall HB series Viva. It was even called the HB here. The TA Torana was the last of the LC/LJ/TA body shells - it was a stop-gap model and a very poor seller because it was hopelessly outdone by the competition when it was introduced in 1974, but there was no four cylinder option initially offered in the larger LH series introduced at the same time.

The "Starrfire" wasn't introduced UNTIL partway through production of the UC, when the Sunbird SLE was released. That engine was also fitted to some Coronas, the VC and early VH's. The four cylinder engine used in the LH, LX and early UC was the 1900 Opel.

You're right about one thing though. No matter which four cylinder engine was fitted, they were all utterly gutless.

Umm.. Vauxhall Viva and Opel Kadett are the same thing. Same chasis, about 85% off body panels in common. Look at the windscreen scuttle and grille, roof line and rear wasitline.

Hate to tell you this but teh starfire four engine - 1897 cc Opel CIH I4, was sold in the LH, LX Sunbird, just wasn't called the Starfire before the UC, because it wasn'tmade locally before then.

 

[Calaber]

Umm.. Vauxhall Viva and Opel Kadett are the same thing. Same chasis, about 85% off body panels in common. Look at the windscreen scuttle and grille, roof line and rear wasitline.

Hate to tell you this but teh starfire four engine





Umm. Nope. Similar but definitely NOT the same body shell though the chassis layout could have been similar, apart from being either LHD or RHD. In the early 1960's, Vauxhall had its own design facilities as did Opel. Both were GM subsidiaries, like Holden. Their designs often shared certain corporate stying characteristics, which made them look "similar" from some angles but they were not the same cars. It's likely they shared components, but each division had its own designs and it WAS the Vauxhall HB Viva which was adopted to replace the HA Viva, not an Opel. The main difference between the English Viva and ours was that the English model had rectangular headlights, the Holden had round ones. There were also other detail differences between them to bring the HB Torana into line with current Holden models. Generally, Opels were sold on the European LHD market and Vauxhalls were principally built for the British and some Commonwealth markets (like ours - eg HA Viva, Victor, Velox etc) which were right hand drive. (After all why go to the trouble and cost of adapting a LHD vehicle when a suitable RHD vehicle already existed?) Furthermore, Holden had for years assembled and sold Vauxhall vehicles through Holden dealerships so the connection already was well established.

And in relation to what were you saying about the Opel engine being called Starfire. Utterly wrong. Where did you ever get that idea from? The Opel engine was NEVER called the Starfire. The name "Starfire" was dreamt up by Holden's marketing people to promote the "new" Holden 4 cylinder engine. The people in the Engineering Department were not impressed as they knew the engine was anything but outstanding.

It was a shortened version of the Holden 6 and was originally intended to use as many existing 6 cylinder components as possible, to keep costs and development times to a minimum. It was not introduced until midway through the UC model so it didn't appear until late 1978 - well after the LC/LJ/TA bodyshell was history. It was a cheap and quick fix to provide Holden with a local 2 litre engine but it ended up being coarse, crude and gutless and very poorly regarded. It vibrated so severely that it required heavy duty con-rods as the standard 6 cylinder ones lacked the strength to tolerate the inherent vibrations. (Those rods are good for use in heavily modified Holden 6's as they were much stronger and pretty cheap.)

If you had a further comment to make regarding this engine, feel free but check your facts first. You missed this one by a mile.

 

[Tsunamix]

Ahem...

Cohort Classic: Holden Torana LX Sunbird 1900 (Starfire Four) – Borrowing A Few Names Along With The Design Cues

I know - you can't trust websites. I'm still looking for the workshop manual from GMH which listed the starfire' family' of motors. I had it when I was a grease monkey...

Oh and the Opel and Vauxhall were jointly developed by the Vauxhall design team. They are the same bloody car, with marketing level differences.In the end the the outcome was the joint Vauxhall & Opel OHV Programme.

VAUXHALL HA - VIVA

 

[Tsunamix]

Ahem...

Cohort Classic: Holden Torana LX Sunbird 1900 (Starfire Four) – Borrowing A Few Names Along With The Design Cues

I know - you can't trust websites. I'm still looking for the workshop manual from GMH which listed the starfire' family' of motors. I had it when I was a grease monkey...

Oh and the Opel and Vauxhall were jointly developed by the Vauxhall design team. They are the same bloody car, with marketing level differences.In the end the the outcome was the joint Vauxhall & Opel OHV Programme.

VAUXHALL HA - VIVA

 

[Calaber]

Righto. One point at a time.

First. That article you attached is wrong. Simple as that. The Starfire appeared in late 1978 midway through the UC model. I've said it before and I'm right. That article is not. The Starfire did not appear in the LX. I'm old enough to remember when it was released with the Sunbird and I test drove a new one at the time. Obviously, my personal knowledge carries no weight on the net, so let me quote from my reference book "45 Years of Holden", which has been reprinted a few times over the years but is still relevant to all the Torana range. (As that web extract is from overseas (the US, I think), it's been put together by someone who knows very little about Torana's, yet you want to use it as support for your argument. Get a local information source, at least.)

UC Torana (March 1978 to April 1980)

"The four cylinder 1900 Opel engine and the six cylinder engine range were basically as before, with minor improvements. However, late in 1978 the Opel four gave way to the Starfire engine. It was released simultaneously with Sunbird SLE and was based on the 2850 (173) six cylinder with two fewer cylinders. It was the first Holden four-cylinder engine designed and built in Australia."

Now, your next point about the Torana being developed from an Opel rather than a Vauxhall. Let me quote again from the same reference.

HB Torana Series (May 1967 to September 1968)

"While the HB Torana was the first small Holden, it was not GM-H's first small car. It had already experienced manufacturing and marketing the Vauxhall HA Viva. When the HA was due to be replaced with the HB Viva in 1967, GM-H decided to increase the local content and badge it as a Holden."

It's pretty well known that the HB Torana was an Australianised HB Viva. You would have to be the only person I have ever encountered who thinks otherwise. And you are totally wrong.

Go and find some decent and accurate references and good luck finding a Starfire workshop manual but as I mentioned previously, the "Starfire family" comprises the UC, the VC and the VH. It wasn't released in the VB because that car was already substantially lighter than previous Holdens and it was thought that the small six would be sufficiently economical to eliminate the need for a four cylinder. Obviously, this thinking changed by the time the VC was released and the Starfire was eventually phased out during VH production because the Camira was introduced as the mid-size four cylinder car in 1982.

And this is supposed to be a thread about the next Monaro??? We sure have digressed.

 

[Reaper]

Ahem...

Cohort Classic: Holden Torana LX Sunbird 1900 (Starfire Four) – Borrowing A Few Names Along With The Design Cues

I know - you can't trust websites. I'm still looking for the workshop manual from GMH which listed the starfire' family' of motors. I had it when I was a grease monkey...

Oh and the Opel and Vauxhall were jointly developed by the Vauxhall design team. They are the same bloody car, with marketing level differences.In the end the the outcome was the joint Vauxhall & Opel OHV Programme.

VAUXHALL HA - VIVA

Tsu - I'll side with Calaber on this one.

 

[figjam]

And some of us are old enough to remember when these things (the Torana Backfire Four ) were the latest and greatest.

 

[Turtl3]

the front looks like a mash up of a camaro and a maserati...possibly a hint of merc in there aswell, the back looks like a crossfire mashed with a 370z

i dont mind the front but i certainly wouldnt be caught dead putting the monaro name against it

 

[cello_g]

According to an article I read the other day (will try and find and link it) GM have ruled out reusing the Monaro name, so it will never be a Monaro. Can't say I'm a huge fan of the car or its styling, looks like a thinly veiled Chinese knock off of the Mustang.

Why aren't we getting the Camaro exactly? Ford brought over the Mustang to replace the Falcon, why wouldn't GM bring over their sporty V8?