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Noisy lifters - LS3 - cold start.

Ron Burgundy

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I don't you think it's mechanical either. You could be onto something with the mse Monstar!
Hey Xonar, disconnect the mse and see what happens?

Crossed my mind too, to do that.
These days I generally remote start the car and let it run for a few minutes but as soon as i start driving i can hear it. With very light throttle and on flat you can barely hear it. But i live in 'hilly' area and going up the hill makes noise very noticeable. I will explain all this to holden and see what they say. I suspect they will say all i good if the noise goes away at operating temperature
 
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Ron Burgundy

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Banjo79 - RIGBY (I hear what you're saying) could possibly be that but probably not. Sounds more like cold engine knock / induction to me.
If it does it when properly warm then yeah I'd pin noise / vibration / harmonics down to something credible like balancer. But nobody mentions issue when (oil) is at operating temp.
The best thing I did for NVH was to install a Fluidampr instead of that elastomer mounted flopsy thing that will fail regularly, no question.
View attachment 192093
Why not L77 make a noise or LS3 prior to the pooter tube enhancer thang is another good question.
It's too early to start my car (at motel) but a cold start video of a whisper quiet:rolleyes:, well-tuned smooth running car
being cantankerous, belligerent, :mad: farting, clanging, ringing and clanking billowing out fog from the rear during cold start would put one's brand new car 'pistons slapping' into perspective.

Motel ? What r u up to ?
 

monstar

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Motel ? What r u up to ?

Yeah, and with some random Kiwi...
Nothing you blokes wouldn't do when nobody's looking :p
Here's me being slapped with a surprise fish in the face, cup of dusty motel tea before giving the old slapper the crank. Yeah she be farting and complaining all the way but I don't think the groan is coming from my piston:confused:
 

Ron Burgundy

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Nothing you blokes wouldn't do when nobody's looking :p
Here's me being slapped with a surprise fish in the face, cup of dusty motel tea before giving the old slapper the crank. Yeah she be farting and complaining all the way but I don't think the groan is coming from my piston:confused:
Your engine makes bird chirping noise ! Should check that out bruv... probaby lifters
 

Immortality

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**** Holden have made these engines sound like poofs when cold. No Holden 304 ever sounded so bad, net even when totally clapped out and just about to throw a rod out of bed :p

Never again will I want to make a V6 sound like that!
 

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**** Holden have made these engines sound like poofs when cold. No Holden 304 ever sounded so bad, net even when totally clapped out and just about to throw a rod out of bed :p

Never again will I want to make a V6 sound like that!
304 Better sound served cold eh, I've heard some great builds when warm... think it's maybe a matter of opinion, rather than the prevailing noise floor that is modern science, you know, awareness of health and technology drowning out the old inefficient 'blub blub' of cars from the good old days :D
Would be a novelty to see hot clips of cold old iron blocks, otherwise can't see much point visiting the outdated engine / V6 section.
There are a few apps that work like a MSE to make a V6 sound like an LS at operating temp, seen those?
 

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Modern science? It's still only a basic 2 valves per cylinder 4 cycle engine, nothing modern about it really. Maybe some of the ancillary stuff bolted onto it but the reality is it's basic design is very old (and very inefficient).

I was commenting about a cold engine which is what this thread is about......

And IMHO that sound clip is worse than any Commodore V6 I've heard. I really would never want to make a V6 sound like a V8 but my point was why would I want to make it sound worse.....


......and it's debatable whether or not the exhaust from your "modern" engine is any less toxic than the crap that came out of the tail pipe of leaded fuelled engines. They took out one carcinogenic component and replaced it others....
 

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Found this somewhere....

"Pistons rock as they cross TDC where the thrust load from the rod angularity shifts from one side to the other. This makes noise. Harmless..but it is the source of piston slap in most all situations.

To prevent this, pistons are designed with long, tapered, flexible skirts so that they can be fitted very tight in the bores when the bore and piston is cold. The taper of the skirt and flexibility of the skirt then prevents scuffing when the piston is hot. Also, the piston pin in OEM production pistons is always offset to one side....it is NOT in the middle of the piston. By offsetting the pin in the piston, artificial thrust load is created to control the piston "rocking" as it crosses over TDC.

Unfortunately, all of the above control techniques, common in past model engines to the extreme, create excess piston mass, cause friction and cost power and fuel economy. With the desire to build in as much power and free-revving capability and to improve fuel economy as much as possible thru friction reduction these design features are pushed in the other direction on modern engines.

Piston pin offset has been reduced over the years to a bare minimum today to reduce the thrust load generated and reduce friction. Pistons have been lightened up considerably by shortening the skirts. This creates less rotating/reciprocating mass which is good for power, free revving capability and fuel economy. Light weight pistons are great but the skirts, by necessity, are short making it hard to make them both strong and flexible and the shorter ckirts make them more prone to rocking.

Unfortunately, when the performance and fuel economy oriented pistons are run cold they are very prone to "slap" until they warm up to operating temperature.

The piston designers and development engineers are always treading the fine line between piston slap cold and friction and power/fuel economy loss when the engine is warm.

It is possible that you are hearing piston noise from an engine that is on the "high limit" for piston clearance so that it makes some noise cold. The good news is that the condition is harmless and that engine is probably a little more powerful (due to less friction) than a "quiet" counterpart. The bad news is that...it makes noise cold.

As an example of what the piston pin offset can do, it was common back in the early 70's to turn the pistons around "backwards" in the large displacement Chrysler engines to gain power. Those engines had large piston pin offsets to create thrust load to control the piston slap. So much thrust load and friction was created that just turning the pistons around in the bores was often good for 10 HP. The engines were very quiet with the pistons in correctly and they slapped like crazy, especially when cold, with the pistons reversed so as to reverse the pin offset.

Racing engines do not have the pin offset and thus the pistons slap like mad...but no one hears them over the open headers...LOL.

The noise is an annoyance but will not hurt anything and the engine is fine.

I don't remember if that engine had full floating pins or not but they can also cause some ticking just after start. Same sort of deal...the "correct" clearances in floating pins will cause clicking after startup for 30 seconds or so. To prevent the start up noise, the floating pin clearance must be kept so tight that the pins are almost press fit again."
 
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