Noisy lifters - LS3 - cold start.

[Immortality]

You can't really compare a 1970's piston to your modern LS because of the different materials used in the manufacture of said pistons. Modern pistons are made of materials that expand a lot less as they heat up unlike older pistons or forged pistons that require more bore clearance. What has also changed is the piston skirt length and piston weight. Modern pistons are much lighter with a higher pin height and shorter skirts all done in chasing economy and efficiency by reducing rotating mass. The down side is the piston can rock more in the bore due to the much shorter piston skirt.

 

[monstar]

You can't really compare a 1970's piston to your modern LS because of the different materials used in the manufacture of said pistons. Modern pistons are made of materials that expand a lot less as they heat up unlike older pistons or forged pistons that require more bore clearance. What has also changed is the piston skirt length and piston weight. Modern pistons are much lighter with a higher pin height and shorter skirts all done in chasing economy and efficiency by reducing rotating mass. The down side is the piston can rock more in the bore due to the much shorter piston skirt.

So you think it is piston rocking?

 

[Immortality]

Is that what I said?

I was simply adding to the previous post about piston design......

 

[426Cuda]

Why so abrupt Immortality? It was a fair question I thought.
You can compare old school and modern pistons. The differences were well discussed, in the post above yours. The changes were made in the pursuit of power and economy as stated. Power makes noise. As an example I built a cast iron Mopar LA block 360 + 40th. I installed HP forged pistons, aluminium intake manifold, extractors and a solid cam and lifters etc. It rattled, snorted and clunked like a bitch compared to a standard one. Which are very quiet. Why? A combination of all the above improvements. But, it had more than twice the power and torque as a result. But it was noisey. I'm sure it would have had piston slap too. But, I loved it! I also love the sound of my L77. Hot or cold. Despite aluminium allow transmitting sound far more than cast iron.
The technological advances you scoff at are huge. Compared to an old school V8, carby fed 350 or efi 304, LS engines are world's apart. Same basic architecture, yes. However comparing them to a 2 valve per cylinder 4cyl, is like saying a modern fighter jet is like a sabre, or a modern house like a tent made from animal skins and logs. They perform the same basic function, they have numerous similarities, but they are very, very different in their design and use of modern engineering, materials, processes, computerised design, metalurgy and other technologies. In 1979 a new 351 made about 120kw. Compare that to a Coyote, which also uses far less fuel...similar story with the LS. The argument is about as valid as saying old cars are safer. Pure nonsense.
My Redline doesn't make any piston slap noises. If it did, I'd either live with it, warm it up first or turn the radio on if the noise annoyed me.
Holden hasn't made these engines sound ****. In fact, they get praised for their glorious sounds by journo's and owners a like. I can't comment on, the mse. Because I don't know. I have driven a few and I like the sound though. I will get more of a feel for it when my Motorsport arrives in three months. For now I'll just enjoy the sound of my L77.

 

[Immortality]

Yep, power makes noise but your modern LS should run tighter Piston to bore clearances than your stock 1970/80/90's engines so your 2017 OEM engine should run quieter than any stock 1970's OEM.

You can't compare a OE piston/engine to a built engine making big HP with after market forged pistons made of different materials that require greater piston bore clearances to allow for extra expansion.

Yep journo's rave about the sound of these motors but they are talking about how they run when up to temp and giving it the jandle.

Anyway, Monstar is adamant the problem with these engines ins't piston slap, if the problem isn't mechanical then what is it?

And as for the short answer, considering who Monstar is it's important to give short concise answers so he doesn't misconstrue what is been said.

 

[monstar]

Yep, power makes noise but your modern LS should run tighter Piston to bore clearances than your stock 1970/80/90's engines so your 2017 OEM engine should run quieter than any stock 1970's OEM.

You can't compare a OE piston/engine to a built engine making big HP with after market forged pistons made of different materials that require greater piston bore clearances to allow for extra expansion.

Yep journo's rave about the sound of these motors but they are talking about how they run when up to temp and giving it the jandle.

Anyway, Monstar is adamant the problem with these engines ins't piston slap, if the problem isn't mechanical then what is it?

And as for the short answer, considering who Monstar is it's important to give short concise answers so he doesn't misconstrue what is been said.

Ha ha arrh, what say Ye? I be a sea monstarr!
I think this noise that only affects the 340 tune (not 325, 317, L77 or L98) is either the MSE (which can be verified with NA R8 owners) or something in this tune. HSV and Holden share same ECU tune for auto AFAIK.
I may have got it back to front in an earlier post when I said too much retard, on closer inspection 340 tune has heaps more advance and cold noise reduction retard and / or ECT vs spark (retard) isn't far enough when stone cold.
A bit of reliable logging inc WBO2 data would go a long way wouldn't it?
Anyone near Brisbane or Coffs this weekend and we can sort this with a TechEdge and FlashScan. Else a beer and an iPhone, a blini and a bong, I'm in whatever it takes

 

[Immortality]

Aye, you watch that Pirate beer

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I ll be removing MSE tomorrow to see if this makes any difference....

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Idle after cold start...
No strange noise.
One thing i noticed is that the level of noise depends on outside temperature. It was much better in summer but now when temps drop under 15c i can hear it more.

 

[07GTS]

have u checked header bolts..? if slightly loose and exhaust is escaping it will make a strange noise until it warms up and expands and seals itself, otherwise it dosnt sound like a tick or slap to me sounds more rotational like pulley/belts ect