NOT ANOTHER CAM THREAD...... But need facts plz

[JETURBO]

Alright peps its cam selection time and iam the kind of bloke who usually knows the answer but will ask anyway in the hope someone has done what is "un achievable" so to speak

So first up i want a cam to suit mid power gains vs top end
Also will need to suit stock stall
Also needs to suit street work

Now i know VCM have a nice selection ( well x3 ) to suit these requirements

I also know i will be doing a "kit" ie valvesprings to suit 650/retainers/locks/sprocket 3 bolt etc etc

This is where it gets a bit slippery....... I want to "stage " my performance up grades in some kind of order but "TRY" to cross parts over into the next round reducing the need to do things twice

The part of concern is that ultimately one day this cam/kit needs to suit a big single turbo kit running around 10psi on E85, spinning to around 7200rpm max and AFR's and timing to match repeatability....

The first round is

OTR
CAT BACK
TUNE

second round is

CAM KIT
HEADERS
Cats
TUNE

Third is either

HEAD WORK or COMPLETE SWOP

or this is when the turbo kit is likely to go on, now still not 100% sold on turbo or a mag heartbeat blower kit but either way i want the cam to suit N/A and then FI

Is there a cam/kit that will overlap this mod process and any data or stats would be amazing.

Thanks in advance

 

[PIR4TE]

Will be interesting to see a professional study and approach, subscribed.
You are the expert so keen to hear what you have to say, but my understanding is that for NA valve events and head you basically tune specs around six cycles, whereas for FI you are dealing mainly with knock management, four cycles (else you would simply just up the compression) and FI raising VE even with stock gear that can double the swept volume hence different requirement from heads.
I expect one cam to suit both requirements without the ability to vary the intake centreline (and LSA) is a waste of time, too much compromise to realise efficiency of either approach. ie NA overlap will work against FI gains, either blowing out the exhaust or back through the intake.
A starting point perhaps would be to target the crank angle where the LS3 develops most cylinder pressure. In a Holden V8 that is 13 ATDC. The extra bore of an HSV LS3 would affect that, right?
Another consideration is that even with e85, with an effective compression of almost 18 @ 10psi is counterproductive without introducing the Miller cycle (longer expansion stroke through cam retard) to manage FI thermodynamics. So NA with tight LSA and more cam advance is exactly the opposite to FI wide separation and retard.
Also difference in lift (valve shroud / curtain) at higher RPM and under more pressure (NIMEP) would warrant different lobes and spring pressure.
Having said that of course you can always achieve a cam spec compromise but that would hardly be an optimised recommendation to suit both combustion conditions. First and second round is easy and there's already an abundance of threads here with opinion and data.

 

[arronm]

Jet, why CAM and move the peak torque higher. Just bolt on the heart beat and be done with it.The rest will be just flushing money down the toilet.

My mate had blown VE then put a cam in, ruined the car in many ways...

 

[Heron SSV]

I don't think you'd get a cam that'd get the most out of your second stage and also suit the next couple. There definitely are cams that work fine NA and are great once FI is added, but there are better cams suited for NA, and vice versa. I suppose it depends on how much testing you want to do in each stage, if you want to explore what's achievable for each stage then you'd be better off matching the cam with the specific application (full zorst, intake and cam, then adding aftermarket or ported heads, then FI). Seeing as it's a shop mule, you may as well do the testing now so you can pass on your own experience and knowledge to your customers

 

[JETURBO]

Yeh i fully understand what your saying ( all above ) apart from doing nearly every possible cam grind imaginable to compile data i have what i would assume a very well walked path in this area, these engine/vehicle combo's are ancient now so i would feel that i can skip a bunch of leg work in this area from others and data that is already available.

Pirate i know what your saying hence why its going to be a kind of ultimate "sacrifice" grind, in no area will it shine but it will do a 1/2 job in as many areas as possible, sounds ridiculous i know but theres good reasons to this along the way

Selecting a cam for each area would pay dividends no doubt i agree 100% but this will be something i can also use along the way that stats and others will provide from tried and tested choices.

Iam very sure that many have gone down this mod path and had to do things twice over, iam trying to skip some of the dicking around initially as its something i will re visit when i have the time

So jumping forward a touch apart from the VCM selection of mild cams there are a few that i feel may hit the spot, this spot needs to be ( from initial reports/reaserch)

LSA small but overlap enough to pass as a N/A "cam" to the average joe ( 112-114 )
Must maintain P-V still in .100 no less
Must have decent lift still but low to mild say 223/224 there abouts
Must have manners ( 600-700rpm idle )
Must suit stock stall
Would love it to be an off the shelf item ( i realise this is a long shot )

Ultimately it would seem like a "baby" cam to the N/A crowd, yet lift gains around 10-15rwkw from across the range ( maybe less )
Would have enough to support the FI in regards to dropping cylinder pressure a touch with the overlap making adding PSI a touch easier.

Now i know i may be barking up a tree but for many people/customers packages are a way of modding and my self agrees so just like on any make and model if you can dress up a package to overlap the best you can it becomes a very economical choice.

Yeh i know your thinking " MAKE MONEY ITS BUSINESS " but I actually do this as a hobby first and have done ALOT of tunes/dyno work for free in the past and id like to continue helping blokes out vs making them pay over and over

Seems crazy i know but it makes me happy helping the joe out

If theres any hard fast facts please link them up

 

[BookMe]

Got this cam from Camtech here in NSW.

233/233 .591 .596 113lsa
For my LS1 383ci GT42.

No idea if too big for stock stall. I had my Dominator N/A stall redone for $350, to suit my FI setup.
So if you were to get a new convertor now, then when FI comes along it's only another $350.

 

[JETURBO]

Very nice can i squeeze some more details off you please

Do u have a dyno graph or power stats

What stall speed are you at now ?

How much boost ?

Why and who selected the cam ?

What does it behave like at idle/low speed crawling ?

Thanks

 

[07GTS]

that cam is close to mine i have the vcm6 only has different lsa of 114 so little more boost friendly, i would not recommend it on standard stall, im manual and there is not much down low but thanks to the boost 2k and above are nuts pulls all the way too 6500

 

[JETURBO]

07GTS can you throw up a link to your build thread or some details on what you got please

 

[blackve76]

when I did my L98 cam did heaps of investigations on dynamic compression etc.

have a read

LS3 x 3 - Comparing Three Performance Cams on the Engine Dyno - EngineLabs

Lingenfelter GT9 Hyd Roller LS9 ZR1 Supercharger Camshaft All LS Engines - Lingenfelter Performance

interesting specs above

I did have a 224/244 cam in my 6l was a nice cam very driveable ultimately went 239/247, that lingenfelter soundslike a good cam, better than the ordinary grinds not sure about the auto aspect though.

I got heaps of help off US forums, heap of info from them Chevy | Camaro | Firebird Reviews, Performance Parts, Modifications - LS1Tech.com