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Panel Filter vs CAI (for V6)

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by mc., Dec 6, 2010.

  1. soop

    soop Banned

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    How would it benefit over say, the standard air box with a 3.5" maf pipe?
     
  2. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    I've got a airhammer setup and the difference in throttle response and fuel economy were surprising. KARTAL, for $250 off ebay I'd think it's probably the best bet. That OTR looks the goods though, and I think it would work extremly well in a MAFless application.

    BTW thanks for clearing that up Mace.
     
  3. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Just from those pictures, you'd have to be blind to not see how restrictive the stock system is.
     
  4. soop

    soop Banned

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    Replace the maf pipe with some 3" pipe and see what happens.
    You could make that that "Air Hammer" with $10 worth of pipe from the hardware store and $20 worth of silicon bends.

    I'll agree that the resonators in the OEM maf pipe suck, All they're there to do act as an expansion chamber, which slows the air down, thus making less noise. All you've gotta do is remove that.
    The Air hammer couldn't be worse then the OEM setup. But is it $250 worth of better?
     
  5. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    You could make anything engine related yourself if you had the skills/time/experience/tools.
     
  6. soop

    soop Banned

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    Yeah but I'm saying anyone, regardless of skill could make that with some pipe and silicon bends. If you can put a round peg in the round hole, you can make that for 6p 10.
     
  7. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    Comparing a factory panel filter/box arrangement and a pod filter the latter (with a similar surface area) will out flow the factory box hands down (unless the pod filter is poorly located). The reason being is that the flow into the pod filter is much more direct unlike the panel filter which zig zags into the inlet.

    I guarantee that the air hammer setup would be much better then the factory setup even if the factory setup did have a upgraded smooth pipe in between the throttle body and the MAF. Good example of this is the SS Inductions VE kits

    SS Inductions - Performance Automotive Enhancements

    At the end of the day though everyone has different needs/values and abilities; to suggest that the only prerequisite for everyone developing a CAI is the ability to put a round peg into a round hole are certainly not accurate. Many reasons for this, some people might be time poor, have limited skills to create a quality product that looks factory like (not bunnings like) or they simply cbf :D

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  8. soop

    soop Banned

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    I've never heard anything good about those SS inductions kits.
    And I would personally want some hard evidence that the pods work any better before I went that direction over an OTR.

    I'll put my money where my mouth is and try some of this stuff out too. If someone can tell me the best way to get reliable data.
     
  9. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    Monaro327 and 1989mitty both preferred the airhammer/k&n charger type CAI over the OTR. Mitty had a russo OTR if I remember correctly.

    But I'd still like to see some dyno sheets as you say soop.
     
  10. soop

    soop Banned

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    Dyno charts wont prove **** really.
    Intake temp and flow is a goer.

    I can measure all that with my scan tool :D
     
  11. karlos

    karlos New Member

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    Are we wanting dyno sheets from VE engines(6cyl) for pod/panel/otr comparrisons or any engine?

    People,when does a CAI do its best work,when moving,not in a dyno room.I have seen gains with pod setups over improved panel setups evertime with location and choice of material being a big factor in the pods gains.Get the car out on the road though and the gains are evn more evident.

    In a perfect world,having a rolling dyno on the open road with 60kmh/r roadspeed(having air pushed in mimmicking real time) the tests would be quite conclusive in the pods favour(if utilised as Steve said)having one near headlight is going to get air cooler than otr or a zig zag std airbox.Not bagging otr's at all as they do a great job and look better imo.
     
  12. soop

    soop Banned

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    Fug it, I'll go buy one and rig up a few different variations of a CAI and see what my scan tool says. Sound good?
     
  13. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    I think the reason given for an OTR not being feasible on the alloytecs is the MAF doesn't like being that close to the throttle body. Different kettle for the lsx motors (they love em). So until MAFless comes out, its probably a wasted excercise.
     
  14. soop

    soop Banned

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    99% of people get rid of the MAF on LSx engines anyway.
    As far as I'm aware they don't like having the MAF on the TB for the same reason the ECO tec doesn't. Resonance out of the Manifold screws with the reading the sensor gives.
     
  15. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    I only used the SS inductions item as an example relative to the factory air box and standard intake pipe and how there are gains to be had without even touching the pipe between the throttle body and MAF.

    Don’t get me wrong OTR’s certainly do work depending on the design and application. But to assume that they work in all applications for every single engine configuration is probably a bit far fetched.

    If you have access to a VE (better yet a VZ) I’d be happy to help supply CAI’s for testing. When your testing the OTR though make sure you drive around with the bonnet closed yeah :p

    VE V8’s seem to love having the MAFs in place, even in conjunction with a OTR and a standard tune. The delco MAFs in general are very tolernant and accurate measuring instruments. The alloytec Bosch MAFs on the other hand are less tolerant to fluid flow changes adjacent to, because of it’s design. Put the two MAFs side by side and you’ll definitely notice the difference.

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  16. soop

    soop Banned

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    I've been told by a couple of tuners that the LSx MAF doesn't like being near the TB, mainly due the reverberation when the TB closes. Sends air back through the MAF that doesn't go through the engine, or something allong those lines.

    As for the Bonnet thing, I was taking the piss before :D.

    As for testing these things, If All I'm looking for is a change in air temperature and flow. It wouldn't really matter what engine is doing the sucking, true or false?
    At the end of the day a comparison can be made if you're able to take into account that a smaller motor will move less air. (Generally speaking)
     
  17. monaro327

    monaro327 New Member

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    guys i did all the testing about 2 years ago russo otr vs high flow panel vs airhammer. air hammer wins. go to streetcommo i did a huge write up and waste a heap of money when i had my SV6 otr is a fail cause the maf can't deal with being so close to the throttle body made 5rwkws less then the air hammer and ran **** on fuel.
     
  18. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    Soop,

    We sell OTR's as well, so I'm definitely not ignorant to their effectiveness in certain applications.

    OTR's - Mace Engineering Group

    In regards to MAF's being too close to the throttle body on a LSx or Lxx engine for it not to work well, I can teel you that around 70% of VE V8's running OTR's still run a MAF. Infact many tuners recommend that they're kept on! Just jump on Australian LS1 and Holden Forums and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Alloytec different as mentioned previously

    Thank God to hear from someone who's already done this testing, backed up with detailed results :)
     
  19. -SpydeR-

    -SpydeR- New Member

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    This is sort of on topic, but which K&N Panel filter fits in the stock VE SV6 airbox? Cause the last model Commodore K&N made a panel filter for was the VZ. Does the K&N Panel for the VZ fit into the VE?
     
  20. K-Man

    K-Man New Member

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    CPR6 manifold. Read several good articles on them. Never owned one (or an Alloytec) but its' claim in one article is - "you will gain 19-25 hp and all you need is 4 spanners and 2 hours." (for DIY) Cost - $1900. Add a tune for another 15-20hp. It doesnt specify if this is flywheel or rear wheel hp, but and extra 40 hp is still an extra 40 hp.
     

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