Possible lifter rattle

Well - left the car overnight at the dealer for a cold start the next morning. Went there at 07: 30 am (7 degrees outside) and cold started with two techs - one in the passenger seat and one outside next the engine with the hood up. Started the car and let the revs drop to 500 rpm (90 seconds or so) and then while stationary slipped it into drive with the brakes on and raised the rpm to around 800.

Clack Clack Clack ........

Both techs acknowledged the noise and advised me to leave it there until the service manager comes in for a listen (it's no good listening when it's already warmed and quiet though !).

Got a call that afternoon and they wanted to keep the car for another night and cold start it again next morning followed by a test drive.

Following after noon (day 3) i get a call stating that:

They are gonna do a scan test and a test drive.

I asked: Why do a scan and why test drive it when it's not cold ?
No real reply !

Later on i get a call saying:

Noise is normal !
"These alloy blocks amplify normal noises"

Apparently they compared it to another v8 on the lot with similar miles on it and it makes a similar noise when cold started. Similar ?
So i ask what makes the noise if it's normal then ?
No real reply - i would imagine that i would be told "What makes the noise is this or that etc." but nothing really.

Anyhow i get the impression that they just wear you down and make it difficult.

When I picked the car up it had only 1km more on the clock than when i dropped it off - however they had "Test Driven" it.

Got them to write a report which pretty much says what i have already - except they finally attributed it to lifter noise on cold start up.
Lucky for me they have "Opened a case" with Holden Customer Care (Sarcasm).

At least it's now all documented and i have 3 years (minus a few months) of warranty left.

Just a thought too:

When i was test driving prior to purchase i think a drove 3 including this one.

Each one was started by the salesman, backed out, driven out of the yard with me in the passenger seat and once warmed up we swapped over.

Call me a cynic - but just maybe they are all like this and after owning for a while you start to notice what you may have not before ?

I'll, be keeping a close eye on things from now on just to make sure this normal noise does not get any worse.

 

My 2014 ssv wagon has had a rattle noise from the drivers side of the engine under acceleration only, since day 1. Everyone has told me it's normal, the dealers, people on this forum, other vf v8 owners, but not one single person has been able to tell me what the noise is or where it is coming from. They all guess what it could be, but don't worry, it's normal. My 95 vs ss never made a rattle, so how can a rattle from an engine on a car 20 years later be normal?

 

Post a video.

No L77 has died of slow pressurising deac lifters, so relax. However it is likely something other members can help communicate exactly what's causing it and how to claim a remedy.

 

For what its worth -

Do the V8 engines have a EVAP solenoid/valve in the return line from the charcoal canister back to the inlet manifold, as the V6 alloytec has?

The valve makes a clicking noise after about a minute or so after a cold start. It is usually not present when cold.

Maybe that is another source of clicking and not lifters.

 

That honestly sound like piston slap to me. I compared it to my video regarding piston slap, the sound is very similar.

 

The problem sounds like aeration causing a lazy lifter on 6 but jumps around other deac lifters like you say. I had same issue under warranty using 'good' Havoline synth from the dealer. FWIW you can demonstrate this NVH symptom will disappear completely with a different oil, same spec. I use Penrite GF-5, covers all the bases, made in Australia, family owned.

The bastard thing is the noise you hear is typical, but shouldn't be. Although related via the cause of the symptom you are reporting, that noise is lifter but quite different to the common chirp of the LS catastrophic cam face / lifter roller wear issue (I have plenty of facts about that, but off topic).

So sticking to the complaint report, on the noise front the service guy is correct, it's typical. However don't leave it at that because it is a clear indicator to a problem with the lubrication system. Yes crap lubrication is insidious, left unchecked it will definitely cause major damage, particularly to surfaces with high frictional torque ie cam face, lifter rollers.

You will need to arrange a dongle for the diagnostics port in order to log the oil pressure vs coolant temp vs rpm for your own benefit, and for creating documentation toward a more technical dialogue for a remedial claim. Observe the pressure spikes / pulsations at steady rpm and note the operating conditions under which the noise begins and / or is at it's worst.

This takes the guesswork out of the 'hearing' equation with replicable, quantitative evidence in mechanical terms the service guy can respond to. If your car is an auto (assuming stock tune) then triggering AFM mode dumps the bubbles and clears the deac chamber while running, so in addition make notes about the noise sitting idle at operating temperature having cycled AFM as well.

BTW there are a couple of claims processors on this forum, buggered why they only chime in to pontificate about about sales stock...

The cause is degradation of lubrication quality (using approved oil and filter) to the point where telltale NVH symptoms in the valvetrain can be observed, and with reasonable diagnostic inspection through the on board port, pressure irregularities can be logged and provided.

It is likely an incorrectly fitting o-ring somewhere, there are threads which go into such detail but point out the irregularities to dealer service manager / Holden while unopened and covered under warranty.

If out of warranty then simply use decent fricken oil with ZDDP that isn't so fickle and doesn't froth, bubble and deteriorate at times that it should lubricate and protect.

 

I don't have this issue and run Mobil 1 in my VF 6.0 and E85. You say to use the GF-5 with is Dexos approved. Two questions, in your opinion is it better than Mobil 1 and as it is Dexos approved I should be able to use it under warranty right?

Bob

 

Last time I used Mobil 1 was 1985, and it was cutting edge at the time, mainly for me because when it slid past the rings and burned out the exhaust there was no blue smoke. Product under that moniker has changed a lot for better and worse since then, I prefer the Aussie high tech stuff from Penrite. Now the Mobil 1 5w30 is also GF-5 so I don't think there is really much in it vs Penrite Enviro GF-5. Yes you can use both under warranty, local product is cheaper.

 

[video]http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/VFCV1/media/VFCVKNOCK_zps5bsj9czp.mp4.html[/video]

This is recorded inside the car as described above - same as the cold start test when at the dealer.

Any comments ?

 

I can't hear well enough, can you video under the bonnet in the engine bay? So its only at a certain RPM while cold?

 

sorry to bring up old topic but this is relevant to this topic..

I just picked up a SSV Redline manual 2014 with 18k on it from a dealership (was a dealership company car, I'm first owner outside of Holden).
It has what sounds like lifter noise to me. It has a full service history and was serviced 2 days before i picked up the car.
I've driven it about 3 hours so far and didn't notice it till last night. It goes away slightly after the car warms up. It's not overly loud but is noticeable. Should i be worried?
I'll post a vid later tomorrow after work (i drive a different car for work) so it'll be from cold start where it's most noticeable.

 

Doesn't sound right on that driver's bank. Sounds less "ticky" and more "screechy" aka lifter roller isn't cleanly rolling across the cam lobe.

I've personally seen a few lifter failures in L77's (including my own), I always ensure oil pump is replaced with the camshaft/lifters just in case it's a pressure issue. My gut feeling is that at higher RPM the stock valvetrain allows some valve bounce which causes the cam/lifter to smash each other out of phase.

General rule of thumb I've come to work off is that if it's consistent between cylinders and sounds like a sewing machine (even if it's loud, all alloy + thin walled headers will amplify), all ok. If one cylinder sounds different or it's a screechy sort of sound it's likely a lifter/camshaft failure.