Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

re: new vs old.. which is better?

Reaper

Tells it like it is.
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
6,493
Reaction score
11,463
Points
113
Location
SE Suburbs, Melbourne
Members Ride
RG Z71 Colorado, 120 Prado , VDJ200, Vantage
hi all im just wondering or wanting a explanation as to why guys/girls are going to the newish models? i guess vn onwards? its just that i personally think all people are doing is buying these cars putting on new rims (not chrome) and thats is, or paying people to do stuff. sorry if sound like a stupid question i guess im curious why people are turning there backs on the oldies and its not just holdens...:cry::dance:

lol...... I'm not sure how you could possibly consider VN newish. After 20 years most cars have been either smashed or warn out. VL and older are becoming very few and far between. Give it 5 years and VN/VP/VR will be the same. 10 years and they will be all but extinct.

Reaper
 

Reaper

Tells it like it is.
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
6,493
Reaction score
11,463
Points
113
Location
SE Suburbs, Melbourne
Members Ride
RG Z71 Colorado, 120 Prado , VDJ200, Vantage
The early Commodores in most parts of Australia where it still rains are stuffed and they never had any rust protection in the first place so that's one good reason to go VN onwards, VN-VZ all have fairly weak bodys and are not safe (air bags help) but they are still not a strong car by modern standards, most of the better 4 cyls hatchbacks built in the last few years get much less bent and are much safer in crash testing, that's another reason :). If I had a family I wouldnt' have them in any Commodore apart from a VE and a VE is a barge so I wouldn't have any

Lol..... Betchya a VT-VZ shell would be many times stiffer and safer than any VN-VS, and for that matter VB-VL.

Reaper
 

Calaber

Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
4,334
Reaction score
1,357
Points
113
Location
Lower Hunter Region NSW
Members Ride
CG Captiva 5 Series 2
I think a lot of guys fall into the old trap that "they doln't build them like they useta."

Well, that's true, they don't and we should all be thankful for that fact.

Do any of you really believe that each new model is not a safer, better designed and engineered car than the one it replaced? And when I talk about design, I don't mean how it looks, I'm referring to how it was designed to go together.

Early Commodores, and by that I mean everything prior to VT, were weak structurally, almost totally lacking in the sort of primary and secondary safety that we take for granted these days. If a VE can just manage five stars for safety, how many do you think a VB to VL would score? Probably two, if it was lucky.

You can spend $5000 buying and building up a pretty decent VB, but all you really have is a nice VB - thirty one years old, live rear axle, ancient engine and transmission, really shithouse interior materials and dodgy electricals. Cheap to maintain and repair? Yep, sure. Safe? Nope, not really. And unless you modify the engine or replace it with something more modern, you have to use premium unleaded with additive every tankful. What a pain in the arse.

For the same money you can buy a half reasonable, high mileage VT, with mayber 200,000 on the clock that is still a far stronger, safer and better handling car than the $5000 VB. It mightn't look like much, but it's a great start and parts are now much easier to get than VB parts.

There is definitely a place for modified earlies, always will be, but they are like old traditional Holdens - getting hard to find, difficult to source some critical parts and requiring fuel that is no longer available.

Later models are now so cheap and offer so much more for the money. I think that has to be a major reason for the situation raised by the OP.
 

stocky

New Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
5,040
Reaction score
80
Points
0
Age
36
Location
Melbourne
Members Ride
1995 HSV Clubsport T5, 1991 VN Berlina
i dont see why my car is not safe compared to yours. only real difference is you have a whole lot extra weight, so you hit objects with greater momentum, traction control, and a few extra airbags. i still have ABS, and after upgrading, the exact same brake system as you. the driveline has barely changed since a VP compared to a VZ, and i dont see what drastic changes were made to the bodies that make mine so weak compared to yours.
as for dodgy electricals and **** interiors. that can be said for any model commodore, and i know that i prefer a vq interior to any cloth interior in later model cars.
 

Calaber

Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
4,334
Reaction score
1,357
Points
113
Location
Lower Hunter Region NSW
Members Ride
CG Captiva 5 Series 2
i dont see why my car is not safe compared to yours. only real difference is you have a whole lot extra weight, so you hit objects with greater momentum, traction control, and a few extra airbags. i still have ABS, and after upgrading, the exact same brake system as you. the driveline has barely changed since a VP compared to a VZ, and i dont see what drastic changes were made to the bodies that make mine so weak compared to yours.
as for dodgy electricals and **** interiors. that can be said for any model commodore, and i know that i prefer a vq interior to any cloth interior in later model cars.

Stockly

Like it or not, your VR or VS was still based on the VB floor pan. Yes, by VR, it was substantially upgraded, but by comparison with the VT shell, it is far weaker. The cheap method used by Holden to get the wider body for the VN, by simply basing it on the VB floorpan, meant that the basic structure suffers from mid 1970's engineering technology, when crash protection and avoidance was still a dark science for Holden. It was a cheapskate way of getting a wider body on the old "architecture" - that's why the VN always looked too wide for its suspension - it had basically VB components under a wider shell. Much of the VB suspension, such as the rear control arms, brakes, struts, can interchange from VB to VS - I know, because I've done it, and so have many others.

The VT was a much later design, deliberately heavier because it was mucyh stronger. Yep, you can have ABS, IRS and a few other safety items in a VR/VS, but the basic shell is much less rigid.

This isn't meant to be a criticism of your car, or any other early model, it's just a statement of fact. (Note - not my opinioon - fact)

As I said in my earlier post, every subsequent model is a genuine improvement on the model it replaced - if it wasn't, Holden would have gone out of business long ago.
 

Cobez

LS-EXUAL
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
3,109
Reaction score
42
Points
48
Age
39
Members Ride
2004 S2 VY SS Ute
Maybe they don't LIKE the older models?

I bought mine because:

A) I love VS HSV's

B) I couldn't afford the old Holden i would like (VK SS blue meanie :yeah:)
 

Reaper

Tells it like it is.
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
6,493
Reaction score
11,463
Points
113
Location
SE Suburbs, Melbourne
Members Ride
RG Z71 Colorado, 120 Prado , VDJ200, Vantage
i dont see why my car is not safe compared to yours. only real difference is you have a whole lot extra weight, so you hit objects with greater momentum, traction control, and a few extra airbags. i still have ABS, and after upgrading, the exact same brake system as you. the driveline has barely changed since a VP compared to a VZ, and i dont see what drastic changes were made to the bodies that make mine so weak compared to yours.
as for dodgy electricals and **** interiors. that can be said for any model commodore, and i know that i prefer a vq interior to any cloth interior in later model cars.

Stocky: I enjoy both the new and old cars - including the great VP and some much, much older ones as well. To be sure, prang one and you will find out. Believe me - you will be much better off in a VY over a VS.

actually the suspension setup changed on the VR. try fitting VR struts to a VP

True but the platform is a carry over dating back to the VB. That said, parts of the VT-VZ go back that far too however the body structure is light years ahead.

Reaper
 

red_vb

i am a she, not a he...
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
141
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
geelong
Members Ride
vb
lol...... I'm not sure how you could possibly consider VN newish. After 20 years most cars have been either smashed or warn out. VL and older are becoming very few and far between. Give it 5 years and VN/VP/VR will be the same. 10 years and they will be all but extinct.

Reaper

gee i think mines going ok for a 30yo(1 year older than me). you know i never really tought about the vn and old, i guess coz mine is just older thats all, but yeah they are so commen that i have found wreakers are only stocking from vn onwards then what am i going to do?
 

red_vb

i am a she, not a he...
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
141
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
geelong
Members Ride
vb
commodore r.i.p?

hi all hope everyone is going along good,good. will holden ever kill off the commodore like they did in kingswood, torana? do all car names have a time line? and sorry to bring up fords but would you think they will kill the falcon?
 
Last edited:
Top