re: new vs old.. which is better?

[Calaber]

actually the suspension setup changed on the VR. try fitting VR struts to a VP

Yeah, I'm well aware that the VR front end was revised. I have spent 8 years owning a VN and a VR so I'm very familiar with both. The point is, under a VR or VS, unless you have IRS, the car was about 80% VB. Even if you have IRS, the car is still about 60% of the old model underneath. This is hardly a sound basis for a modern, safe car.

 

[stocky]

Yeah, I'm well aware that the VR front end was revised. I have spent 8 years owning a VN and a VR so I'm very familiar with both. The point is, under a VR or VS, unless you have IRS, the car was about 80% VB. Even if you have IRS, the car is still about 60% of the old model underneath. This is hardly a sound basis for a modern, safe car.

but a VT-VZ is hardly that much different underneath compared to an IRS VR-VS

 

[red_vb]

sorry im lost underneath mentally not physically hahaha sorry thought it was funny, should i think about doing a vn conversion? or stick with this straight six? or go old school v8?

 

[Calaber]

sorry im lost underneath mentally not physically hahaha sorry thought it was funny, should i think about doing a vn conversion? or stick with this straight six? or go old school v8?

What condition is your car in? Is it mechanically and bodily sound or does it need work. If it needs work, how much?

It's easy to convert a VB six to an eight, but quite a bit more involved fitting the mechanical components from a VN, because the later engines had fuel injection and more involved electronics than the first series of Commodores and you have to ensure that all these things are installed correctly.

Then , if you upgrade things like the engine, you need to ensure that your suspension, steering and brakes are up to the task. Four wheel discs are a basic need as the old disc/drum combo on your VB won't be good enough. All suspension bushes should be replaced and the steering rack overhauled to remove any worn bushes or tie rod ends, which are very common wear points on Commodores of all vintages.

In my opinion, the old Holden six isn't really worth working up these days because of the fuel problem. They won't run on unleaded unless it's premium with an additive, or you run them on LPG. They don't really put much power out and the transmission choices are limited.

 

[Calaber]

but a VT-VZ is hardly that much different underneath compared to an IRS VR-VS

Stocky

In some ways, they might look alike, but the later models are wider, longer and have greater stiffening in the chassis rails. They are built for right hand drive, instead of being adapted from left hand drive (eg. handbrake location moved over to correct side on VT onwards). The bodies were about 75kg heavier, all additional weight to provide a stiffer frame. In fact, the first VT's were criticised because they were so much heavier than the VS and the performance of the standard V6 suffered as a consequence.

 

[Goon]

In my opinion, the old Holden six isn't really worth working up these days because of the fuel problem. They won't run on unleaded unless it's premium with an additive, or you run them on LPG. They don't really put much power out and the transmission choices are limited.

Correction = they do run on unleaded and still the additive its a pain in the ass though, casue some servos dont sell it.

Overall i think the power problem is the issue on the early stock 202's.

fuel usage can be a debate for every owner of the classics..

----------------------------------------------

Vl/VN/VR/VS are still popular models today even without the safety features of the 2000 onwards models..

The cost to look after the oldies is another issue, some people spend more, some people spend less, like some people have mechanic skills and some dont.

 

[Calaber]

Correction = they do run on unleaded and still the additive its a pain in the ass though, casue some servos dont sell it.

Overall i think the power problem is the issue on the early stock 202's.

fuel usage can be a debate for every owner of the classics..

----------------------------------------------

Vl/VN/VR/VS are still popular models today even without the safety features of the 2000 onwards models..

The cost to look after the oldies is another issue, some people spend more, some people spend less, like some people have mechanic skills and some dont.

Pre-unleaded Holden sixes ran compression ratios in the high 9:1 and required super grade fuel which I think was about 96 RON. Standard unleaded is only 91 RON.

The additive is only to replace the tetraethyl lead in super which served two functions. It raised the octane rating to enable the fuel to work effectively in higher compression engines and lubricated the valve heads to prevent recession. The additive only looks after the valve recession, I don't think it raises the octane rating from 91 to 96.

What you say about running on standard unleaded with additive is true - the oldies will do it, but they then suffer power loss because of the lower octane rating. That was why I suggested that to run at their best, they really need premium unleaded, which gets expensive when you have to pay for the additive as well every refill.

 

[greenfoam]

There are euro spec crash tests going back to VS's on the crash test site, you can easily go and read up on them. The VS/T/X/Y/Z are all pretty average, the VS is a littttle bit weaker than the VT but not much (I'm talking head on crash here the VT should be better from side on with it's armoured doors). But only the VS had doors that could open after the crash test (I think they poped open they bent so much) all the others needed crow bar action. Compare that to most cars built in the last couple of years, you can hit the wall at 64km/h and the passenger compartment is undamaged with perfectly working doors etc, pretty much anything that rated 5 stars will be like that. It's only been in the last few years that companys have been using exotic steels to re-enforce the bodys

 

[Goon]

Pre-unleaded Holden sixes ran compression ratios in the high 9:1 and required super grade fuel which I think was about 96 RON. Standard unleaded is only 91 RON.

The additive is only to replace the tetraethyl lead in super which served two functions. It raised the octane rating to enable the fuel to work effectively in higher compression engines and lubricated the valve heads to prevent recession. The additive only looks after the valve recession, I don't think it raises the octane rating from 91 to 96.

What you say about running on standard unleaded with additive is true - the oldies will do it, but they then suffer power loss because of the lower octane rating. That was why I suggested that to run at their best, they really need premium unleaded, which gets expensive when you have to pay for the additive as well every refill.

Well thats alittle knowledge i just learnt then hahah :thumbsup:

 

[ucrvme]

newish model cars are coming down in price dramatically and i guess people prefer to have something they can spend money on rather then having to spend money on recos and other things..

But regarding mechanical work - call me a cynic but i prefer to have someone qualified to do it then undertaking it myself in the sence of engine mods i don't wanna be playing around and happen to stuff something up.