Rough Idling - 2016 SV6 SII

[nickomac]

Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster!

I have an issue with my 2016 SV6 SII where it seems to idle rough when stopped almost 90% of the time I drive it (whether it's when I first turn it on, at a set of lights or stopped in traffic).

It feels as if there are cars going past me causing the entire car to shake, but it happens when there's nothing else around (I noticed it when I was waiting for a car wash yesterday it just randomly started doing it).

I've taken it to the dealership twice, they were able to replicate it the first time I took it in, but the second they weren't (that's another story though, I'm fairly unhappy with the service from this particular dealership).

After the first visit (where it was happening intermittently at this point) I was told to try using either 95 or 98 exclusively, but it's made it worse to the point it's happening 90% of the time I'm idle.

Does anyone have any experience with a similar issue and can maybe point me in the right direction so I can relay the info to the dealership?

Thanks in advance!

 

[blackve76]

How many kms, could be plugs/coil pack dirty maf or injector.

 

[nickomac]

How many kms, could be plugs/coil pack dirty maf or injector.

Ah apologies, I should've put that in! Began at ~7,000km's, it's currently at 11,500kms

 

[Sean880]

1. If your 2016 V6 engine is performing like that at idle you have a misfire in one or multiple cylinders and possibly a random misfire across various cylinders.

2. Not enough information. If you have a 2016 with low kms it is still under new car warranty. If the dealership was able on your first visit to check the engine whilst it was misfiring they should have been able to trace the cause although diagnosing engine issues (if they even bothered) is apparently not necessarily a strong point with some of their mechanics now.

Just telling you to use 95 or 98 petrol is not a solution but using those fuels won't make your problem worse. It's worse because the cause has not been identified and rectified. I don't know what else they told you in that visit but they clearly never bothered with any kind of thorough diagnosis despite their having all the necessary diagnostic equipment at their disposal. Their equipment can generate raw data from each cylinder so that even if there are no cylinder misfire trouble codes generated (you have not mentioned if there are ) they can see what is going on with each cylinder.

3. There are multiple possible causes of misfires and another car with a similar issue that was diagnosed and fixed does not mean the cause will be the same on your engine.

4. I would suspect the problem you have with the dealer you are using is that it is warranty work and they don't want to spend time working on trying to track down the issue with your engine because they don't make any profit out of it. I would either go to another dealer service centre (try Pennant Hills Holden) or pick a reputable independent and pay them to track down the cause. If your car is now misfiring 90% of the time at idle it is not rocket science for them to track down the cause on such a newish vehicle and to identify in the first instance which cylinder or cylinders are affected (if they bother that is). If the misfire at idle problem is not occurring across every cylinder the cause won’t be any item that would affect the entire engine.

 

[nickomac]

1. If your 2016 V6 engine is performing like that at idle you have a misfire in one or multiple cylinders and possibly a random misfire across various cylinders.

2. Not enough information. If you have a 2016 with low kms it is still under new car warranty. If the dealership was able on your first visit to check the engine whilst it was misfiring they should have been able to trace the cause although diagnosing engine issues (if they even bothered) is apparently not necessarily a strong point with some of their mechanics now.

Just telling you to use 95 or 98 petrol is not a solution but using those fuels won't make your problem worse. It's worse because the cause has not been identified and rectified. I don't know what else they told you in that visit but they clearly never bothered with any kind of thorough diagnosis despite their having all the necessary diagnostic equipment at their disposal. Their equipment can generate raw data from each cylinder so that even if there are no cylinder misfire trouble codes generated (you have not mentioned if there are ) they can see what is going on with each cylinder.

3. There are multiple possible causes of misfires and another car with a similar issue that was diagnosed and fixed does not mean the cause will be the same on your engine.

4. I would suspect the problem you have with the dealer you are using is that it is warranty work and they don't want to spend time working on trying to track down the issue with your engine because they don't make any profit out of it. I would either go to another dealer service centre (try Pennant Hills Holden) or pick a reputable independent and pay them to track down the cause. If your car is now misfiring 90% of the time at idle it is not rocket science for them to track down the cause on such a newish vehicle and to identify in the first instance which cylinder or cylinders are affected (if they bother that is). If the misfire at idle problem is not occurring across every cylinder the cause won’t be any item that would affect the entire engine.

Thanks for the detailed response!

I think you're spot on with the not bothering due to warranty work as well. I might give Pennant Hills Holden a call for them to check it out, it's close enough to me anyway and I don't really want to give this current dealership any more of my time.

The current dealer also told me that they'd logged a technical case with Holden, but that was in Jan and haven't heard anything back yet. If I take it to another dealer, are they also able to follow up on that case?

Would using something like an OBD scanner + app show similar things as well? I'm tempted to pick one up to try and troubleshoot it myself and then tell the dealership exactly what the issue is.

 

[Skylarking]

It really sounds like many dealers are simply not interested in supporting the vehicles they sold and that are still under warranty.

Really an owner shouldn’t have to give too hoots how profitable warranty work is for the dealer. That’s because, in law, it is the seller that has the legal responsibility for providing a product that is of merchandisable quality and fit for purpose (that is it should work and not fall apart). The seller must fix any faults with the product they sell or if the fault is a major one provide the remedy that the purchaser has requested. A full purchase price refund for major faut with a product is a valid option afforded to the buyer in law.

It must be viewed that the manufacturers come to the party to support the seller (dealer) but it is the seller that is responsible for fixing the fault as it’s their legal responsibility. Any back office warranty payments from the manufacture to the dealer are irrelevant to consumer law.

Viewing it in any other way simply makes a mockery of the Australian Consumer Law.

So, rather than buy scan tool, load apps on an iPad/phone, learn how to use and diagnose problems, that is try to do the work of the dealer service department. Maybe you should consider reading the Australian Consumer Law and understanding the sellers responsibility. Then ring your state Consumer Affairs group and chat to them about your faulty product, the number of times you’ve gone to the dealer to get it fixed and whether Consumer Affairs would consider it a major fault and what rights you have.

Get that information in your head and then go to the dealer principle and placing your demands on him (repair and provide hire car until done, full purchase price refund, whatever) and sit back and watch the scramble.

The outcome likely will go well in your favour. Fiddling with your car yourself just adds too much complications in law (unless you’re a trained mechanic).

No need to get Holden Custome Care involved as they are often inept and in any case Holden Australia Pty Ltd (or whatever the GMH legal entity is called) did not sell you the vehicle.

All this may sound counter intuitive but it’s the best approach when dealing with idiot service departments that don’t want to do their job and support/fix a fault with the product you bought from their business. In part, that’s why it’s also important to stick with the dealer you purchased the vehicle from. Chopping and changing dealers simply muddies the waters.

 

[Skylarking]

Was at the dealers yesterday and a bloke with a v6 ecu flagging faults was getting an explanation that GMH released new software that increased the error window for the cam sensors and that his vehicle was still outside this larger allowable window. So end result was his vehicle was booked in for a replacement timing chain. Cost him $135 for the diagnosis + whatever the timing chain replacement would set him back.

To me, this issue with a timing chain that required a new software to be release simply indicates the update is designed to cope better with the larger than expected chain stretch that seemed to be occurring on these engines. As such I t’s just kicking the can down the road far enough that any timing chain stretch issues will not be a warranty job and the poor owner will be lumbered with the cost.

@nickomac, now I doubt your issues is the above timing chain stretch but it’s always worth remembering that GMH and their Dealers are often only looking after their interests with a smile.

Hope your issue has progressed or better still been resolved. Let us know how it turned out .

 

[Redline16]

It really sounds like many dealers are simply not interested in supporting the vehicles they sold and that are still under warranty.

Really an owner shouldn’t have to give too hoots how profitable warranty work is for the dealer. That’s because, in law, it is the seller that has the legal responsibility for providing a product that is of merchandisable quality and fit for purpose (that is it should work and not fall apart). The seller must fix any faults with the product they sell or if the fault is a major one provide the remedy that the purchaser has requested. A full purchase price refund for major faut with a product is a valid option afforded to the buyer in law.

It must be viewed that the manufacturers come to the party to support the seller (dealer) but it is the seller that is responsible for fixing the fault as it’s their legal responsibility. Any back office warranty payments from the manufacture to the dealer are irrelevant to consumer law.

Viewing it in any other way simply makes a mockery of the Australian Consumer Law.

So, rather than buy scan tool, load apps on an iPad/phone, learn how to use and diagnose problems, that is try to do the work of the dealer service department. Maybe you should consider reading the Australian Consumer Law and understanding the sellers responsibility. Then ring your state Consumer Affairs group and chat to them about your faulty product, the number of times you’ve gone to the dealer to get it fixed and whether Consumer Affairs would consider it a major fault and what rights you have.

Get that information in your head and then go to the dealer principle and placing your demands on him (repair and provide hire car until done, full purchase price refund, whatever) and sit back and watch the scramble.

The outcome likely will go well in your favour. Fiddling with your car yourself just adds too much complications in law (unless you’re a trained mechanic).

No need to get Holden Custome Care involved as they are often inept and in any case Holden Australia Pty Ltd (or whatever the GMH legal entity is called) did not sell you the vehicle.

All this may sound counter intuitive but it’s the best approach when dealing with idiot service departments that don’t want to do their job and support/fix a fault with the product you bought from their business. In part, that’s why it’s also important to stick with the dealer you purchased the vehicle from. Chopping and changing dealers simply muddies the waters.

I can agree some dealers aren't interested in warranty work. Those ones are more worried about always crying poor to the customer about how much time it costs to do this and that and they have done a favor just by booking it in to be looked at. The thing they don't realise is that they don't get repeat customers. Other Holden dealerships (good ones) love taking the other dealers (bad ones) customers/work.

 

[kirkc]

I'

Thanks for the detailed response!

I think you're spot on with the not bothering due to warranty work as well. I might give Pennant Hills Holden a call for them to check it out, it's close enough to me anyway and I don't really want to give this current dealership any more of my time.

The current dealer also told me that they'd logged a technical case with Holden, but that was in Jan and haven't heard anything back yet. If I take it to another dealer, are they also able to follow up on that case?

Would using something like an OBD scanner + app show similar things as well? I'm tempted to pick one up to try and troubleshoot it myself and then tell the dealership exactly what the issue is.

I've got a cheap wifi OBD scanner and several free iphone apps. I'm almost certain that I saw misfire records for each cylinder in there somewhere.

 

[JMHarding]

Did you eventually establish the cause of your issue? I have a 2016 VF SV6 II and experiencing exactly the same issue.