SS VE Ute - Broken

[Kimbo_xx]

hi guys
I hope I am posting in the right thread there. Looking for a recommendation for a good mechanic on the Gold Coast.

Long story so sorry will try to keep it short and sweet.
nov 2016 - hubby driving ute home from Tweed to Gold Coast, engine misfiring. Took it straight to dealer, they advised needed new fuel injectors. Drives it home, and we use our other car, figuring in two weeks will have the funds to fix it then. Hubby has a serious work accident the next week and spends the next 1.5yrs in and out of hospital so car gets forgotten about, no biggie, will deal with new battery/servicing etc when needed as still have 2nd car.

Aug 2018 - finally hubby's health is managed and we have the funds to get fuel injector replaced. Take care to Holden who advise not a fuel injector problem, they don't know what the problem is and need to diagnose it. I agree to one hour diagnosis then an update, (in the end 3hrs worth of diagnosis). Get a call from the mechanic, advising that the car has been overrevved/redlined and that's screwed up. Car ready to be towed home as they have left the parts on front seat. email quote below.

Cause PO300 random misfire to cylinder 7 - compression tests done, injectors/coils swapped out. definitely #7. Removed rocker cover, inspected valve spring, push rod is not moving. #7 intake rod is bent. suspect #7 intake lifter stuck in cylinder head bore. Compression test #1 180PSI, #2 175PSI, #3 175PSI, #4 180PSI #5 180PSI, #6 180PSI, #7 70PSI, #8 180PSI.
Recommend replace all lifters, push rods and associated parts (lifter head stuck in cylinder bore).

Parts: $4400
Labour 12hrs - $1593
Machinery work - will need to be sublect to another repairer to fix this.
Approx estimate $6398 (inc the 3hrs diagnostic already paid)

I have car towed home, engine parts in front seat. husband devo (as I had done the repair booking as a surprise for him to cheer him up). I ask for quote to cover only what is needed but told all lifters, push rods to be replaced (I ask if only 1 broken can I be quoted for that, no). I feel dumb as ****.

Is this issue as major as it reads that only holden can fix, or is this something any decent mechanic can? Still trying to get my head around the whole thing but life has taken over and last few months car on back burner. Obviously I will need to have it towed to wherever but hoping someone can advise a decent mechanic so i can at least get a quote / start saving (hopefully get a better price than the dealership has given me).

thanks in advance
Kim

 

[gohrdrgomad]

hi guys
I hope I am posting in the right thread there. Looking for a recommendation for a good mechanic on the Gold Coast.

Long story so sorry will try to keep it short and sweet.
nov 2016 - hubby driving ute home from Tweed to Gold Coast, engine misfiring. Took it straight to dealer, they advised needed new fuel injectors. Drives it home, and we use our other car, figuring in two weeks will have the funds to fix it then. Hubby has a serious work accident the next week and spends the next 1.5yrs in and out of hospital so car gets forgotten about, no biggie, will deal with new battery/servicing etc when needed as still have 2nd car.

Aug 2018 - finally hubby's health is managed and we have the funds to get fuel injector replaced. Take care to Holden who advise not a fuel injector problem, they don't know what the problem is and need to diagnose it. I agree to one hour diagnosis then an update, (in the end 3hrs worth of diagnosis). Get a call from the mechanic, advising that the car has been overrevved/redlined and that's screwed up. Car ready to be towed home as they have left the parts on front seat. email quote below.

Cause PO300 random misfire to cylinder 7 - compression tests done, injectors/coils swapped out. definitely #7. Removed rocker cover, inspected valve spring, push rod is not moving. #7 intake rod is bent. suspect #7 intake lifter stuck in cylinder head bore. Compression test #1 180PSI, #2 175PSI, #3 175PSI, #4 180PSI #5 180PSI, #6 180PSI, #7 70PSI, #8 180PSI.
Recommend replace all lifters, push rods and associated parts (lifter head stuck in cylinder bore).

Parts: $4400
Labour 12hrs - $1593
Machinery work - will need to be sublect to another repairer to fix this.
Approx estimate $6398 (inc the 3hrs diagnostic already paid)

I have car towed home, engine parts in front seat. husband devo (as I had done the repair booking as a surprise for him to cheer him up). I ask for quote to cover only what is needed but told all lifters, push rods to be replaced (I ask if only 1 broken can I be quoted for that, no). I feel dumb as ****.

Is this issue as major as it reads that only holden can fix, or is this something any decent mechanic can? Still trying to get my head around the whole thing but life has taken over and last few months car on back burner. Obviously I will need to have it towed to wherever but hoping someone can advise a decent mechanic so i can at least get a quote / start saving (hopefully get a better price than the dealership has given me).

thanks in advance
Kim

Firstly no recomendations. The list is quite detailed and needs a qualified trade to attend to the issue. Whoever does the work you would expext a gaurantee. At least you would receive the Holden warranty if you choose that path. A qualified engine builder would be my choice other than Holden. Some engine builders do not remove and refit.

 

[Kimbo_xx]

Thank you, that's at least a start for us to research who we need. Appreciate the fast response.

 

[Skylarking]

Sorry to hear of your plight.

So, as i understand, after the initial diagnosis in Nov 2016 where the dealer stated the car needed new injectors, your hubbie drove home. The SS Ute was then parked and not driven or started at all (sitting unused) until Aug 2018. Then in Aug 2018, you drove it to the dealer (was it the same dealer?) who spent 3 hours before pronouncing #7 intake pushrod was bent and valve was stuck. Then they claimed the engine was stuffed because it was over-reved/redlined?

The thing that stands out to me is that all modern computer controlled engines have fuel/ignition cuttofs specifically to protect the engine from damage related to over-reving the engine. The engine cutoff is set within the ECU and may or may not have any relation to what's shown as red within the tachometer within your instrument cluster. So it seems odd to me that they are implying you damaged the motor in such a way - i call bullsh!t.

But some general questions (rhetorical) pop into mind:
- did the dealer say you shouldn't drive when they diagnosed the injectors?
- how did it drive and sound when hubbie was coming home in 2016 after the dealer diagnosis?
- how far is the dealer from home?
- how many kms had it covered since it was service previous to nov 2016?
- who did that service (the same dealer doing the diagnosis)?
- how did it drive and sound when going to the dealer in 2018?
- how far was that dealer from home (if not the same dealer)?
- how many kms has the car done in total?

As to a stuck valve, such usually occurs due to lack of oil maintance or engine overheating issues or a combination of both. Stuck valves can also be cause by lean cylinder combustion causing hot valves which carbonise the oil jaming the valve. This later cause has direct relevance to an injector issues (or poor aftermarket ECU tune updates) but how do you prove it is the question.

Sadly any dealer, not just Holden, will look at the years between 2016 and 2018 and the corresponding lack of maintenance as being the casue of such an issue and it can be difficult for them to look past it.

You can try discussing the background with the dealer and HCC, especially if you have the 2018 repair quote which lists the oddometer at that time along with the 2018 quote which lists the oddometer at that time. AND if any extra kms can be attributed to only the dealer-home-dealer drive you may have something to discuss with teh dealer/Holden. But if you've put on much more kms than that dealer-home-dealr drive, they'll blame it on a lack of maintenance and driving your car to engine destruction.

If you have been upfront with the dealer and can show the car was not used, they may be able to discuss it with Holden and see if some good will can be offered by way of having your car fixed for nix or part paying the costs.

In any case, it is recommended to replace lifters and rods every 100,000 kms in LS3 V8 but not sure whether the same recommendation exists for your engine (read the VE problem/recall article for some background info about potential issues with your engine).

As to your engine repair, it's not an exotic ferrari engine just a simple pushrod V8, so any competant workshop can rebuild these things, eithe stock or with more power should you choose. No idea about costs but i've read cam, lifter, rod upgrades costing 1/2 of what the dealer seems to be charging. It could also be that a good secondhand engine may be worth considering as it could be cheaper still. can't recommend any workshop on the Gold Coast but no doubt others will chime in.

So do consider discussing this with the dealer and HCC but as life has gotten difficult over the last few years, it may be better not to dig in and fight to preserve ones emotional wellbeing.

Goodluck.

[this was to be the first reply to your post so i shouldn't start typing and then walk away from the computer for a while... ]

 

[Dylan kingswood]

I went through this last year with a failed lifter 2011 ve ss l77 6 litre under used car warranty they replaced a lifter but 2 months later it reared it’s ugly head again with no warranty I went down the path of a aftermarket cam and new lifters And push rods and upgraded double springs and a few other bits and pieces with a tune all up was $3500 but I done all work myself from memory I went ls7 lifters as ls2 lifters are prone to failure sorry I can’t help you as I’m from tassie but just ring around and make some enquirers price wise

 

[Kimbo_xx]

Sorry to hear of your plight.

So, as i understand, after the initial diagnosis in Nov 2016 where the dealer stated the car needed new injectors, your hubbie drove home. The SS Ute was then parked and not driven or started at all (sitting unused) until Aug 2018. Then in Aug 2018, you drove it to the dealer (was it the same dealer?) who spent 3 hours before pronouncing #7 intake pushrod was bent and valve was stuck. Then they claimed the engine was stuffed because it was over-reved/redlined? Yes - the only time it was started was the week before when we had Lubemobile come and fit a new battery, sorry I forgot that in my original timeline post)

The thing that stands out to me is that all modern computer controlled engines have fuel/ignition cuttofs specifically to protect the engine from damage related to over-reving the engine. The engine cutoff is set within the ECU and may or may not have any relation to what's shown as red within the tachometer within your instrument cluster. So it seems odd to me that they are implying you damaged the motor in such a way - i call bullsh!t.

Pretty much, the mechanic rang me after the 3 hours of diagnostics and said it had been overrevved/redlined too often I told him no, it was driven like a normal person drives (Yes the odd give it a bit of grunt here and there as you do, but nothing insane. I said to him, it's a V8, not an engine made with cotton candy - (That may have peeved him off lol). We literally had no issues with the car until this point.

But some general questions (rhetorical) pop into mind:
- did the dealer say you shouldn't drive when they diagnosed the injectors?
- how did it drive and sound when hubbie was coming home in 2016 after the dealer diagnosis?
- how far is the dealer from home?
- how many kms had it covered since it was service previous to nov 2016?
- who did that service (the same dealer doing the diagnosis)?
- how did it drive and sound when going to the dealer in 2018?
- how far was that dealer from home (if not the same dealer)?
- how many kms has the car done in total?

As to a stuck valve, such usually occurs due to lack of oil maintance or engine overheating issues or a combination of both. Stuck valves can also be cause by lean cylinder combustion causing hot valves which carbonise the oil jaming the valve. This later cause has direct relevance to an injector issues (or poor aftermarket ECU tune updates) but how do you prove it is the question.

Sadly any dealer, not just Holden, will look at the years between 2016 and 2018 and the corresponding lack of maintenance as being the casue of such an issue and it can be difficult for them to look past it.

You can try discussing the background with the dealer and HCC, especially if you have the 2018 repair quote which lists the oddometer at that time along with the 2018 quote which lists the oddometer at that time. AND if any extra kms can be attributed to only the dealer-home-dealer drive you may have something to discuss with teh dealer/Holden. But if you've put on much more kms than that dealer-home-dealr drive, they'll blame it on a lack of maintenance and driving your car to engine destruction.

If you have been upfront with the dealer and can show the car was not used, they may be able to discuss it with Holden and see if some good will can be offered by way of having your car fixed for nix or part paying the costs.

In any case, it is recommended to replace lifters and rods every 100,000 kms in LS3 V8 but not sure whether the same recommendation exists for your engine (read the VE problem/recall article for some background info about potential issues with your engine).

As to your engine repair, it's not an exotic ferrari engine just a simple pushrod V8, so any competant workshop can rebuild these things, eithe stock or with more power should you choose. No idea about costs but i've read cam, lifter, rod upgrades costing 1/2 of what the dealer seems to be charging. It could also be that a good secondhand engine may be worth considering as it could be cheaper still. can't recommend any workshop on the Gold Coast but no doubt others will chime in.

So do consider discussing this with the dealer and HCC but as life has gotten difficult over the last few years, it may be better not to dig in and fight to preserve ones emotional wellbeing.

Goodluck.

[this was to be the first reply to your post so i shouldn't start typing and then walk away from the computer for a while... ]

Thank you for such a detailed reply. I will answer your questions below (hopefully don't stuff up the formatting).

But some general questions (rhetorical) pop into mind:
- did the dealer say you shouldn't drive when they diagnosed the injectors? Only in August, not the first time (not that we would have anyways as it was running like shyte). I even hesitated to drive it there to begin with last year, but given it was 5km away did it. All up since the original issue it's done probably 12km.
- how did it drive and sound when hubbie was coming home in 2016 after the dealer diagnosis? Like it had dropped a cylinder, and wanted to stall is the best way I can describe it
- how far is the dealer from home? 5km one way
- how many kms had it covered since it was service previous to nov 2016? It wouldn't have been more than about 2000, as we took it in for 50k service but they did the 65k according to the calendar). (I remember arguing with hubby as to why we needed a service when we hadn't done the k's )
- who did that service (the same dealer doing the diagnosis)? yes, same dealer, (I don't want to name them)
- how did it drive and sound when going to the dealer in 2018? exactly the same as sounded the same as it did in 2016
- how far was that dealer from home (if not the same dealer)? n/a
- how many kms has the car done in total? 2010 model, has done just on 65000km

** forgot to add ** yes I do have both quotes showing the kilometres done at each time period. And reading that recall list just reinforces that this whole thing doesn't feel right to me - I know I can't prove anything from the responsibility not being fully ours, but I also can't see that by not driving it would make it any worse (apart from seizing up or drying up of parts I guess). We've never had a car where it has literally just gone from perfect running to that). I feel like the just palmed it off as not their issue at all and here's the bill. Thanks so much for your reply and hubby and I both feel a little better knowing there is a light at the end of the tunnel and not just looking at a $70k car that feels like it's $70k worth of scrap metal.

 

[Kimbo_xx]

I went through this last year with a failed lifter 2011 ve ss l77 6 litre under used car warranty they replaced a lifter but 2 months later it reared it’s ugly head again with no warranty I went down the path of a aftermarket cam and new lifters And push rods and upgraded double springs and a few other bits and pieces with a tune all up was $3500 but I done all work myself from memory I went ls7 lifters as ls2 lifters are prone to failure sorry I can’t help you as I’m from tassie but just ring around and make some enquirers price wise

Thank you, will start to make some enquiries, even if we can get a price around $3-4k I would be happy with that.

 

[Skylarking]

@Kimbo_xx as I said, it could be worth a chat to the dealer principle and HCC. They’d have to be duschbags to not feel some responsibility towards your car situation and some compassion towards the personal stress of the last few years that put your car issues on hold.

Also, as the issue was first documented in Nov 2016 with a car having only 50,000 or 65,000kms on it, it can’t be considered old as such. And assuming you bought the Ute new from a dealer, it isn’t unreasonable in any way to assume this issue should be covered under your Australian Consumer Law statutory warranty (ACL). So as Holden has made an undertaking to ACCC that Holden complies with their ACL obligations, and not behave like duschbags, it’s somewhat likely they should come to the party and fix this for nix.

Even more interesting is the fact that under ACL, where a major fault occurs, the purchaser can choose their desired remedy which includes a full refund of purchase price.

There are discussions of ACL and Holden’s undertaking on a few threads within the VF forum (I’ll post some specific links if I get a chance). But for now there is the ‘sudden loss of power steer when driving’ sticky thread which is long and has links and references and a number of views. It’s worth a read of this (and other threads i’ll hopefully link to) before putting a case to the dealer and HCC as to why they should fix (or refund purchase price of) you car under ACL statutory warranty.

As the car has been sitting for a while, hopefully you’d be ok with it sitting a little longer and take week or two to formulate a good case to get what you want. But consider it like a game of chess and don’t let it stress you or Hubble to a point where it impacts health.

 

[Kimbo_xx]

Thanks heaps you have given me so much information and a great starting point. I will look into the ACL and ACCC links. thanks so much!