SSV Manual Gearbox woes

[disorganise]

All,

I need some help/advice.
The gear change in my car has never, in my opinion, been as it should. I reported at the first 3000km service that 1st to 2nd gear change was particularly notchy/lumpy at times but no fault was found.

Over time the experience became worse, with 1st and reverse gear becoming particularly difficult to engage at times (physically difficult/impossible to select the gear and needing a combination of clutch pumps, selecting alternate gears etc to finally 'free' it). Unfortunately, the general response was 'no fault found'

Just prior to the 3rd birthday (and thus end of warranty) the clutch was replaced and whilst it made a small difference, it wasn't lasting. Eventually, in April, Holden approved the gearbox to be stripped down and examined - a process that would take a week. Earlier this month I finally had the opportunity to part with the car for a few days and dropped it off.

The feedback was very vague (something about an input shaft) but the net result was that the gearbox was to be replaced. Said replacement has now happened, and the general gear shift is dramatically improved - but it still isn't right. Driving home from the dealer I had difficulty selecting 1st a few times, and at one set of lights 2nd gear (stationary) was totally 'locked out'. I'm no mechanic, but could there be something loose in the linkage or something?

Am I being unrealistic in expecting the gear shift to be accurate and smooth? Could someone with a manual SS describe their shift experience?
The new box has definitely made a difference - shifting at around 3,500 rpm is spot on now, though I am finding a quick drop into 2nd almost grinds despite toe/heeling, like the clutch isn't fast enough or something - but I guess that could be me!

FWIW I've owned several manual cars over the years ('77 mini, '83 Austin Metro, '78 Renault 18, '78 Volvo 244, '77 Celica GT, '90 Celica GT4) and driven many others, and I don't recall similar issues other than when clutches have worn out through age (although the GT4's 1st to 2nd shift was always pretty crap). This is my first brand new car so maybe I expect too much - but saying that I test drove a clubsport last year and it's box was fantastic (I realise it's different to mine but).

What's the collective experience out there? Are the gear changess crap (in which case I'll avoid buying another commodore) or is there something specific wrong with my car that needs to be looked at/fixed?

thanks
Dave

 

[danja]

You could try a different gear oil, in the T56 (which I think is in the VE SS?) Castrol Transmax Z is one of the more frequently recommended fluids, and one I personally back (I used to have a VZ SS manual). The T56 box has never been "smooth" in operation, partly because its built like a brick shithouse, but the oil can help a little.

The VE HSV models I believe have a different box to handle the higher torque of those engines which might explain the difference you noticed.

 

[ads1972]

times 2 for the gear oil. Go fully synthetic and I also hear castrol make the best.

 

[pjdm1980]

I'd keep hounding them, you paid the premium for a new car so if there is something wrong with them it need to be fixed the reason for new car warranty is so you can workout the bugs before you warranty is up and it maybe try head office or consumer affairs?
I know you could try ask Smithy in the cars guide he seems to get answers pretty quick smart and goes straight to the car companies
http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/tools-and-advice/q-and-a/prado_dash_crack.

 

[MPRSSV]

Hey Dave - Ive just purchased my SSV on wednesday so my experience in my car is a bit limited however, I did drive about 5 others before I decided to go with the one I did but all of the gear boxes felt different - From the research I did many people say the gearbox does feel "agricultural" but it does seem wierd if you have owned it since new that it has never felt right - Keep chasing it up with Holden and if you are unhappy with the outcome prehaps try a different dealership. Let us know what happens, cheers Chris

 

[UFO]

OP, very good post. Concise but informative!

You mentioned that they've replaced the gearbox.... but what did they actually replace?
What does the invoice/service summary say?

The fact that they've changed the gearbox should have fixed your dramas. I've driven a few VE manuals and none of them have behaved the way youve described.
What you've described ("2nd gear not going in, 1st hard to select"), sounds like a selector fork issue. These can be adjusted, and it sounds as though the new box needs a little tweeking to get it right.
Take it back to dealer and explain exactly what you've said here about being unable to select gears when stationary.

In regards to oil, I too agree that oil choice can make a difference.... but first you need to get the gearbox reserviced. I'm actually a huge fan of Redline engine oil, but dont go wasting your money on new lube if there is still an underlying issue.
As already suggested, keep going back to Holden mate. I know its a pain, but it needs to rectified properly. Ok, Holden boxes arent the 'bees knees'.... but they shouldnt be giving you that much grief on a normal daily driver either.

 

[TinSnips]

Mine feels like it's a lesser version of yours - and is being completely replaced under warranty tomorrow. Mine has been as it is now since new, so I didn't really think much of it. I asked once about a whining noise at extended periods of slow speeds - think car park jams - but no issue. Had it in a couple of weeks ago for a slight squeak in the clutch pedal and a fault was found in the gearbox and one was ordered for me straight away.

I haven't been 'locked out' of a gear - but I have found it very difficult at times to select first - or even shift OUT of first at times. Seems to get stuck in the gate. Also, noticed what feels to be the beginning of clutch slip at high revs this week so I'll be mentioning that also.

The ute is also having the front bar resprayed under warranty (wasn't primed????) so will be out of action for a few days but I'll let you know how the new box goes when I get it back.

 

[disorganise]

You mentioned that they've replaced the gearbox.... but what did they actually replace?
What does the invoice/service summary say?

As far as I'm aware, the entire gearbox was replaced. I don't have an invoice/service summary yet as Holden HQ want to charge 25% of the box cost to me (citing the fact I've had 3 years use out of it) - the dealer is still trying to get that waived considering there's such a long record of gear change issues. Since posting earlier, I read some other threads indicating there's a known 'two stage' action to engage 1st - this is exactly what I've had and if you only get the first stage in it'll grind and bang out of gear when you lift the clutch. The dealer's test driver eventually experienced that for himself at which point the focus became getting authorisation to replace the gearbox - which is now done.

@TinSnips - the locking of 2nd I can only assume was due to misalignment of something so when I was selecting 2nd on the stick, the gearbox thought I was selecting the bit of metal between 2nd and 4th or something (assuming that's how it works).

Does anyone know if the shorter stick throws (like ripshifter for example) would help? ie, would that replace the "selector fork" that UFO mentions.

I'll be dropping a line to the dealership again tomorrow to let them know the problem isn't completely resolved - man they're gonna be sick of me!

 

[danja]

Does anyone know if the shorter stick throws (like ripshifter for example) would help? ie, would that replace the "selector fork" that UFO mentions.

The shift gates are internal to the gearbox, not the shifter, so I'm not sure it would help in your case. After market shifters usually claim to optimise the 2-3 shift, but that's just by putting stronger springs in to help centre the lever so when you push it out of 2nd, you just need to keep pushing straight up and it will go into 3rd.

 

[TinSnips]

As above, an aftermarket shifter will only improve the action... Not solve any issues. There is a billet shifter around that is meant to provide better stops (rather than just stronger springs - as it isn't a 'rip-shifter) and something like a 30% shorter throw which is excellenet. But again won't resolve any issues with the gearbox. Does move the stick a little closer to the driver though.