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SSV vs E63 AMG ..

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by geo41e, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    Then there's no point. Ford's I6T beats Holdens V8 quite easily. Made the XR8 redundant to anyone that wasn't both a Ford and V8 die hard.

    Holden's best V8 sellers are the SS, SSV (sedan, ute and wagon). If they bring out a turbo 6 to compete with the Ford turbo 6, then it would have to end up beating Holden's V8 as well. A market they do not want to lose.
     
  2. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    beating Holden V8's?? Yeah the current ones, but a DI V8 with variable timing etc I doubt, GenV will have the goods. No point comparing newer engine designs with the old/current design to show that Holden won't bring a TT V6.
     
  3. B-roca

    B-roca I’m an F-18, bro

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    The only reason Holden would release a Forced Induction V6 would be if their Direct Injection V8 was "The Bee's Knees" so as to not kill their V8 market like Ford did.
     
  4. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    But that's exactly what other people are doing in previous posts... No point comparing the new GM V8 with the current Coyote. The Coyote revision will trump anything GM brings out with a few tweaks. Then GM will do the same. It's why they release everything so far below their potential performance levels to start with.
     
  5. kuzman89

    kuzman89 Active Member

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    Not arguing that, you just said holden won't bring out a TTV6 because it would have to beat the xr6t, which will beat the l98. Just saying by the time its here it won't be up against the l98 or perhaps even the I6T, more likely the ecoboost.
     
  6. Jesterarts

    Jesterarts Your freedom ends where mine begins

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    This is simple.

    HSV motor is designed in the US where bigger is better>
    Merc Motor is designed in Europe where they know what they are doing.

    It's nothing impressive what the germans can get out of a motor considering how much they are able to spend on engineering and research, and keep in mine that's untuned, it would pull even more power once Brabus or the like have a fiddle.

    It's unimpressive what the Americans get get from 6.2L... I mean... 317kw? where's the rest? :p
     
  7. jasonsv6

    jasonsv6 New Member

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    why are people impressed with a 4L forced induction engine that only puts out so little so it dosent smash their own v8 into oblivion.

    4L is a large displacement for a turbo engine hence the massive gains from simple tuning and intake exhaust work.
    there is nothing impressive abot this enging beating a N/A V8 in the same car. the large displacement V8 will alwasy have it on the jump untill the turbo kicks in then the falc is off like a scalded cat.
    they are very different driving experiances and a turbo 3L V6 wont take to many sales from the Holden V8 range because the ss will always have the effortles pull and be the cruiser it is the boss V8 was crap not bottom end torque and no top end power it worked as a GT and nothing else the turbo was simply a better alrounder.
     
  8. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    I personally don't think there will be any TT anything from Holden any time soon. In OEM production terms Turbo's are expensive, two of them are stupidly expensive. That combined with the associated packaging issues of plumbing and the like - it's just cheaper and easier to stick with the V8 as the performance option.

    Reaper
     
  9. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    Spoken like someone who has absolutely no experience in the 4.0 I6T. The full 533Nm of torque is available from 1800rpm or so, right through to just past 4000rpm. There is no lag!

    And spoken by someone who only THINKS they understand the industry. Any Holden Turbo sales will DEFINITELY eat into V8 sales. People who don't want performance aren't going to buy a Turbo so there's not really much of a new market to capture. The turbo offers people who like performance a more efficient option than the Holden V8. If it didn't I wouldn't have a 4.0 I6T, I'd have a Holden V8.
     
  10. SV666

    SV666 The Commodore Enthusiast

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    I would like to ride shotgun in a I6T just for the experience, my mates old man got himself a xr6 ute as a company car (non turbo) but was impressed with the little to no acceleration lag comparing it to the sv6. Because of the bigger displacement than the sv6 the ford therefore has more torque to combat the lag?
     
  11. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    It's electronic throttle lag Holden suffers from, across the range... Since the VZ when Holden went to electronic throttle it's been very noticeable. They've reduced it a lot since the VZ but it's still not great.
     
  12. SV666

    SV666 The Commodore Enthusiast

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    Ah ok that explains all, but one would think holden would of dealt with this sort of matter...
     
  13. geo41e

    geo41e New Member

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    end of the day...

    ...Holden needs to move away from the LS(x) technology and start lookin forward.
    the eninge has served holden many years and was great, but really need to jump into the game with everybody else..which is..TECHNOLOGY !
     
  14. jasonsv6

    jasonsv6 New Member

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    spoken like a true bullshit artist mate read the post properly the large v8 has the turbo off the line every single time the I6T comes into its own further down the line and storms home.
    not to even bring in to account the standard rubber on the FPV V HSV.
    dont get you knickers in a twist there is absolutly no such thing as zero turbo lag its physicaly impossable the enginge has to burn fuel to produce gass that gass has to the travel to a turbo wheel the gas then hits the wheel and compresses to the point where it starts to make the wheel turn causing the compressor wheel to turn creating friction in the intake air which then compresses as the wheel speeds up this is then forced in to the engine incressing the combustion pressure and starts all over again. to make this lag free is impossible.
    the I6T simply compensates by having a large displacment that produces a good amount of torque whilst this is happening so lage is non apparent. the lag on theses engins is not very much as they have a relativly small wheel in the turbo and a lot of gas flowing to it. a TT V6 would be so vastly different you could not compair them
     
  15. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    :rofl:

    Launch control holds the revs in my car at 1800rpm with the turbo spooled and ready to go. That equals ZERO lag and all 533Nm of torque ready for take off! Learn what you're talking about BEFORE you post. Otherwise you run the risk of looking, well, silly... Rear grip is the only grip I have when comparing my FORD to a HSV. But Holden have no more than I do so meh. I've had the Holden L98 6 litre and the HSV LS2 6 litre. The I6T beats both imo, hence I have one.
     
  16. jasonsv6

    jasonsv6 New Member

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    standard 245R18 tyres?
    im sorry i didndt realise you had launch control ready to go all the time must be a bitch to drive like that in real world. since when have they fitted launch control to XR's anyway?

    and as usual you act like a ignorant child as to the actual argument at hand never has this been a v8 V turbo the whole point is that they are different beast to drive and a TTV6 is in no way comparable to the I6T or holden V8.

    And im still to be impressed by your 4L turbo that has comparable preormance to the 2.5's nissan was playing with years ago.yes its a great engine with a lot of potential but there is nothing special or talented im making a 4L turbo go like F**K its not fancy or brilliant technology. no one has argued if it is a better preformance car or not but they are no v8 will never drive or behave like one.

    and in the real world cubes will beat turbo untill turbo kicks in lets get the focus of you and your love of self indulgent one upmanship you are not the only turbo owner out there and i coldnt give a **** what wet dreams you have about burning of the lights with you launch control.

    if you cant engage in a technical discussion around the principles then dont bother we have all heard you spruking your XR and we still dont care.
    when we start a thread called my cars better than CSP's XR then you call roll out your crap but were not playing that game today.
    so either start a thred to argue weather I6T or V8 is better and stop hijacking every second thread with your crap or just get off your mines better than yours soap box and shut up
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  17. karlos

    karlos New Member

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    Spoken like someone with plenty of ignorance,lack of Ford knowledge.

    Go for a drive in a FG XR6T and tell me its like a Skyline,if you still do ill keep shaking my head I guess....Apples and toothpaste them two.

    I cant beleive I even replied to your diatribe,attack people's posts and expect to sit back and not get a shirty response,I think not.

    Launch control ready to go all the time,must be a pig to drive.....please.Someones been offended by the I6's abillity,GO THE FORD,Says the Holden man.
     
  18. jasonsv6

    jasonsv6 New Member

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    the XR is nothing like a Skyline never said that. i have driven both and they were both great in very very different ways. I do love driving the XRturbos infact they are a blast.

    i spoke only of the engine outputs a 2.5T putting out 300oddKW is imperssive a turbo 4L not so much. i have taken great care to avoid making claims on either holden or ford or any other manufacture and simple speak of enging capacity and turbo or not if you wish to atribute theses to curtin cars that is a choice for you im not pushing it on ya

    i drive a hilux and a V6 i dont care that the IGT is faster than them not offended just not as impressed as some its easy to make a 4L go fast with a turbo i know of a XE that have been Turbo'd putting out 500kw. but a TTV6 as stated before wont be anything like a I6T or a V8 if this is ignorance on the ford product then please explain how.

    sorry karlos but you simply did not read the post as it was written and you got you back up in deffence of a car that was not actualy being critacised.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  19. CSP

    CSP Banned

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    It's not! Your other nonsense is though... You didn't even understand the benefits of launch control, or even know it was standard for that matter. No it's not used all the time - it's a user preference. But if I want to get up and go with no performance lag, it's how I do it.

    Both Karlos and I love our Holdens but also love our Fords. As far as I know, we speak from plenty of experience with both Holden and Ford driving. I'm not trying to say one product is outright better than the other. And it comes down to personal preference. But for me, the I6T cannot be beaten on performance when compared directly with the Holden V8. But the Holden V8 is AWESOME! And I do miss the exhaust note.
     
  20. soop

    soop Banned

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    Why do people think GM HAS to have DOHC cams to be competitive?

    All that fancy **** is all well and good, but it doesn't guarantee performance. Look at Fords last effort before the coyote.
    Variable valve time just lets them dodge the emission's. It has its performance applications but I guess when you off-set the cost of producing it with the benefits its probably not that greater bang for buck.
    I will guarantee you its expensive as hell to modify. (Speaking from experience)

    Frankly I think that all you people screaming for fancy new gadgets and extra acronyms on the boot lid, simply don't understand how a ICE actually works.
     

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