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SSV vs E63 AMG ..

jasonsv6

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It's not! Your other nonsense is though... You didn't even understand the benefits of launch control, or even know it was standard for that matter. No it's not used all the time - it's a user preference. But if I want to get up and go with no performance lag, it's how I do it.

Both Karlos and I love our Holdens but also love our Fords. As far as I know, we speak from plenty of experience with both Holden and Ford driving. I'm not trying to say one product is outright better than the other. And it comes down to personal preference. But for me, the I6T cannot be beaten on performance when compared directly with the Holden V8. But the Holden V8 is AWESOME! And I do miss the exhaust note.
didnt know launch control was standard is that on all FG's or because its a XR50?
i do know the benifits of launch control and yes it dose take the lag out of the equations its still there mind you just before you are moving didnt have it on any turbos ive driven.

"no its not used all the time" you may need to adjust the settings on your sarcasim detector it clearly dosent work very well.
 

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Why do people think GM HAS to have DOHC cams to be competitive?

All that fancy **** is all well and good, but it doesn't guarantee performance. Look at Fords last effort before the coyote.
Variable valve time just lets them dodge the emission's. It has its performance applications but I guess when you off-set the cost of producing it with the benefits its probably not that greater bang for buck.
I will guarantee you its expensive as hell to modify. (Speaking from experience)

Frankly I think that all you people screaming for fancy new gadgets and extra acronyms on the boot lid, simply don't understand how a ICE actually works.
could agree with you more here there are even some notable benifits in the push rod engine.
 

torana355

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Speaking of boost has anyone been in a new Coyote GT yet?? The bloody things are consistently putting out ~320rwkw's stock!!! Holden have some serious work to do to get anywhere near those figures. I think the GT may give one of those E63's a run for its money with a small increase in boost :p
 

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They don't have any work to do. Slap a charger on an L98 and see the same thing happen.
Why is that hard to understand?

Superchargers just increase the volumetric efficiency.

Frankly, if you want to start a technology pissing contest Holden should use a couple of intercooled turbo's. Far more efficient.
 

jasonsv6

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exactly you put forced induction on a large capacity engine then say ohhh aaah look at that.
why are people awwed by this? i dont get it
 

torana355

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They don't have any work to do. Slap a charger on an L98 and see the same thing happen.
Why is that hard to understand?
.
I understand that charging a 6.2 v8 will more then match the Coyote, the fact is Holden will not do this!!!!! Unless GM release a lower emission turbo or supercharged V8 Holden will not add it. Hell Holden won't even use the supercharged V8 from the Corvette which would drop straight in as they are happy with what they have. GM needs to produce a smaller CI boosted motor for Holden to compete with the Coyote and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Getting 320rwkw's from a 5L with decent fuel economy is actually impressive compared to struggling to get over 350 kw's at the FLYWHEEL from a 6.2L!!! I love my Holden's but i am impressed with the new FPV GT, the fact they have massively understated their power figures means Holden will claim they have close to the same power when they really don't come close.....
 

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didnt know launch control was standard is that on all FG's or because its a XR50?
i do know the benifits of launch control and yes it dose take the lag out of the equations its still there mind you just before you are moving didnt have it on any turbos ive driven.
Then you haven't driven a manual FG Turbo. Every XR6 and XR50 Turbo manual has launch control. And how is lag still there? The car's peak torque is available from 1800rpm thanks to the turbo. When using launch control, the rpms are sitting, waiting (like Chuck Norris at night time, he doesn't sleep, he waits) for launch and the turbo is already spooled. Launch, and the 533Nm are there and being used! So what lag is there? PLEASE explain what you mean. Because I sure as hell don't understand.
 

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I understand that charging a 6.2 v8 will more then match the Coyote, the fact is Holden will not do this!!!!! Unless GM release a lower emission turbo or supercharged V8 Holden will not add it. Hell Holden won't even use the supercharged V8 from the Corvette which would drop straight in as they are happy with what they have. GM needs to produce a smaller CI boosted motor for Holden to compete with the Coyote and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Getting 320rwkw's from a 5L with decent fuel economy is actually impressive compared to struggling to get over 350 kw's at the FLYWHEEL from a 6.2L!!!
where are you getting 320RWK's from may i ask they are 335FWK's factory spec.

holden wont spend the money re engenerring the car and re certafying a different engine when they are still competative and selling well.
they hardly stuggle for 350 flywheel kilowatts they esaly do this and much more with a camm and tune ETC and esily over 500 with a charger
 

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Then you haven't driven a manual FG Turbo. Every XR6 and XR50 Turbo manual has launch control. And how is lag still there? The car's peak torque is available from 1800rpm thanks to the turbo. When using launch control, the rpms are sitting, waiting (like Chuck Norris at night time, he doesn't sleep, he waits) for launch and the turbo is already spooled. Launch, and the 533Nm are there and being used! So what lag is there? PLEASE explain what you mean. Because I sure as hell don't understand.
Mate you know exactly what he means.... Every turbo car has SOME degree of Turbo Lag, sure having peak torque from 1800rpm means there is very little with the I6T but there is lag there to an extent. Sure you won't have any when you have the car stalled up or are using launch control but that is no secret lol.
 

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I understand that charging a 6.2 v8 will more then match the Coyote, the fact is Holden will not do this!!!!! Unless GM release a lower emission turbo or supercharged V8 Holden will not add it. Hell Holden won't even use the supercharged V8 from the Corvette which would drop straight in as they are happy with what they have. GM needs to produce a smaller CI boosted motor for Holden to compete with the Coyote and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Getting 320rwkw's from a 5L with decent fuel economy is actually impressive compared to struggling to get over 350 kw's at the FLYWHEEL from a 6.2L!!! I love my Holden's but i am impressed with the new FPV GT, the fact they have massively understated their power figures means Holden will claim they have close to the same power when they really don't come close.....

Mate, you could bolt a twin vein charger onto an old holden 5ltr and do exactly what the Ford motor is doing.
If you use better engine management it would drink the fuel either.

Smaller displacement just means more effort needs to be spent on the heads/intake/exhaust.

The evidence is clear, look at what most companies were doing in the 1970's. 7ltr engines were the norm. Easy power and geared so that they spent their lives at 900rpm.
If we did that now with decent engine management and the proper gearing you wouldn't need a supercharger or DOHC.

As for the Ford T6.
BA - BF had lag like WRX. Dunno about the FG.
 

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Then you haven't driven a manual FG Turbo. Every XR6 and XR50 Turbo manual has launch control. And how is lag still there? The car's peak torque is available from 1800rpm thanks to the turbo. When using launch control, the rpms are sitting, waiting (like Chuck Norris at night time, he doesn't sleep, he waits) for launch and the turbo is already spooled. Launch, and the 533Nm are there and being used! So what lag is there? PLEASE explain what you mean. Because I sure as hell don't understand.
no i have only driven autos so far.
there is a lag between when you engage the throttle and the engine is bosted up. because you have spooled the turbo by holding a load on the engine before you launch the car then there is little to no lag after launch as you are stating. but the turbo still has to spool up therfore lag but this is done before you set off. you cannot have a turbo without lag you can only manage the lag to an extent
 

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where are you getting 320RWK's from may i ask they are 335FWK's factory spec.
Ford are known to SERIOUSLY understate their factory power.

Stock, an I6T is meant to be 270fwkw but stock some are getting 250rwkw. And with an airbox and tune only, 300+rwkw! That means there's a lot more than 270kw at the fly wheel for a lot of cars. Similar would be the case for the 335 BOSS I would imagine.
 

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where are you getting 320RWK's from may i ask they are 335FWK's factory spec.

holden wont spend the money re engenerring the car and re certafying a different engine when they are still competative and selling well.
they hardly stuggle for 350 flywheel kilowatts they esaly do this and much more with a camm and tune ETC and esily over 500 with a charger
Im getting 320rwkw's from the various tuning places in Australia that have had the new GT on the Dyno including Castle Hill Exhaust. The guys over on LS1.com can appreciate the Coyote but people on here don't seem to lol.
 

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The guys over on LS1.com can appreciate the Coyote but people on here don't seem to lol.
The average age here would be a LOT lower than the average age over at LS1 and therefore less mature.

The attitudes here are FAR MORE one eyed than over at LS1 too. There's a few of us though that appreciate both Aussie brands for their differing benefits.
 

jasonsv6

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Im getting 320rwkw's from the various tuning places in Australia that have had the new GT on the Dyno including Castle Hill Exhaust. The guys over on LS1.com can appreciate the Coyote but people on here don't seem to lol.
apperciate yes but its nothing amazing good on ford for bringing it to the people though.
i havent seen any dyno figures myself hence i asked where they come from. are they stock or tuned?
to bad they are hamstrung by 245 rubber though from factory.
 

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apperciate yes but its nothing amazing good on ford for bringing it to the people though.
i havent seen any dyno figures myself hence i asked where they come from. are they stock or tuned?
to bad they are hamstrung by 245 rubber though from factory.
Completely stock mate and most are running closer to 350rwkw's, Dale got 328rwkw's on his low reading dyno...The manual Gt has already run a 12.8 im pretty sure and most are saying the 6 speed auto will run mid to low 12's. If that isn't impressive for a stock production car then i don't know what is.
 

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The average age here would be a LOT lower than the average age over at LS1 and therefore less mature.

The attitudes here are FAR MORE one eyed than over at LS1 too. There's a few of us though that appreciate both Aussie brands for their differing benefits.
Yeah im a massive GM/Holden man but cars like the Ford XR6 Turbo and the new Coyote GT are serious bits of gear. You would have to be mental or a serious Holden man to buy a HSV over one of those GT's now. This is coming from someone that dissed the Coyote before it hit the dynos....
 

jasonsv6

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the hsv motor has a lot of potental and could esily out strip a coyoty once you start tuning them though.
people buy hsv and FPV for many reasons not just whitch obne is faster and from initial testing the new coyoty is not that much faster in real world applications.
havent driven them myself back to back though
i always knew the coyoty would scream it is after all a forced induction 5Ltr you would expect no less.

i realy dont put much stock in numbers on a dyno graph they dont give an acurate idea of true preformance they elinminate things like grip level, suspension set up, throttle response, drive out of a courner, turn in grip, mid corner grip, feel and confidence in the car. this is where the HSV still wins out albeit not by much
 

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the hsv motor has a lot of potental and could esily out strip a coyoty once you start tuning them though.
people buy hsv and FPV for many reasons not just whitch obne is faster and from initial testing the new coyoty is not that much faster in real world applications.
havent driven them myself back to back though
i always knew the coyoty would scream it is after all a forced induction 5Ltr you would expect no less.
I won't disagree with that. A cammed SS with a full exhaust, intake and tune will get you around 315rwkw's and a high 11 / low 12 at the strip. The thing is the Coyotes can be modified aswell......
 

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I won't disagree with that. A cammed SS with a full exhaust, intake and tune will get you around 315rwkw's and a high 11 / low 12 at the strip. The thing is the Coyotes can be modified aswell......
yes but a ss can be supercharged and have the internals done relativly cheeply.
the coyoty will be very very expensive to do much more than intake exhaust and tune

dont get me wrong there is some serious potental in the ford donk but how far it can be push as is i have no idea well find out im sure though
 
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