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Starting Issues.... Again!

Zyigo

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This post is hopefully not similar to any others! None have helped me so far unfortunately.

Problem
  1. Car has trouble starting after not being run for a while (maybe flooded?). Cranks for 12-15 seconds before turning over. On the occasion it feels like it might even stall! Plus, today for the first time, it stalled on attempt to start. After running for a bit, and turning it off and on again, it starts immediately!
  2. Once started, idle is a little rough! It sits at around 590-600 which by my understanding is a bit too low. I can feel the idle "roughness" as a bit of a shake through the driver's seat every now and then (once every 2 seconds?). Not a full misfire or anything.
  3. LTFT is all over the place. Sometimes 0%, sometimes -5%.
  4. One of the serpentine pulley has a small squeak? I will fix soon, but surely that's not related right?
  5. My attitude. I'm completely over it. I just want my VZ to work, and run properly.
Work This Year
  1. New ECU: solved running issues caused by dodgy ECU.
  2. New coil packs: fixed 2 dodgy coil packs.
  3. New Spark Plugs (standard service)
  4. 9 x New Injectors: Original 6 injectors replaced due to suspected blockage, lead to engine flooding in one bank (-15% LTFT on B1). Replaced All of Bank 1 with 3x New-New Injectors which solved engine flooding.
  5. New Engine Mounts
  6. New Front Suspension Bushings
  7. New Fuel Filter
  8. New Tail shaft centre bearing
  9. MAF cleaned
  10. Throttle body Cleaned
  11. New Purge Control Valve
  12. Rubber piping checked for leaks, but I might have missed one?
  13. New Battery at start of year: Old one was dead.
  14. New starter motor: Fixed starter motor failure.
Hopefully it's clear why I'm over it. I've spent enough $$. I want to know what I'm supposed to do next? Please advise. Vacuum leak? Broken ECU (again)? Dodgy fuel pump? Something else? You guys are all amazing and know your stuff. Thanks.
 
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DavesSV6Tonner

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I had been having intermittent problems recently with my VZ starting, running for about 5 seconds then stalling, engine cold or hot didn't matter.
I had to have my ECU replaced earlier this year and I was starting to think the replacement may be a dud.
About a month ago my battery suddenly decided to pack it in.
With the installation of a new battery the stalling issue has disappeared and also a problem with the central locking regularly not responding to the key fobs has also resolved itself. Amazing how sensitive these modern cars are to slightly low battery voltage.
 

Zyigo

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I had been having intermittent problems recently with my VZ starting, running for about 5 seconds then stalling, engine cold or hot didn't matter.
I had to have my ECU replaced earlier this year and I was starting to think the replacement may be a dud.
About a month ago my battery suddenly decided to pack it in.
With the installation of a new battery the stalling issue has disappeared and also a problem with the central locking regularly not responding to the key fobs has also resolved itself. Amazing how sensitive these modern cars are to slightly low battery voltage.

Interesting! I have tested my battery it is looking good (It was also changed with a new one at the start of the year). But a good thing to keep in mind!
 

Wats_in_a_name

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Hi Zyigo, have you scanned it for error codes. If so did any codes come up? Also, in your post you said that you had trouble starting after not being run for a while, is this sitting for several hours or not being used for several days?
 

Zyigo

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Hi Zyigo, have you scanned it for error codes. If so did any codes come up? Also, in your post you said that you had trouble starting after not being run for a while, is this sitting for several hours or not being used for several days?

Hey mate, yeah no codes just the alight neg fuel trim every now and then (over the last few weeks). By "a while" I mean driving it to work, and then going to drive it home afterwards.
 

Fu Manchu

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Most of what has been listed is fairly common to need replacing or repairing on a car as old as your VZ.

All makes will be experiencing wear and tear and require increased maintenance at 15years old.

Good for your mental health to be more understanding of your VZ. It doesn’t mean to be needy.

I’m having issues with my car not starting. Well, it starts, but can stall straight away. New battery. Still the same.

Need to replace either the key head or the contact ring around the ignition barrel. At least I know what it likely is. If I am extra careful in tilting the key onto the contact ring it starts every time.
 

Skylarking

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Don't dismiss the odd things, like the fact old cars can have lots of varnish in their tanks and in their fuel lines. All is OK and such doesn't cause problems as such. Until you put in some E10, maybe to save a few dollars because you've spend lots of $$ trying to fix some things on your car. Then the varnish could loosen into the fuel and gets to the injectors. Such varnish crud can cause idle and start issues and anything up to full on injector blockages. It all depends on how much varnish crud and particle crap is freed up into the fuel by using E10 after running 91 for many years.

But alcohol dissolves fuel varnish so you can use that fact to your advantage. Question is how much alcohol is OK in a VZ, it's E10 capable so at least 10% wouldn't cause tank, line or seal degradation. More on that later...

If it's still running rough, consider doing he following. Get some empty 20 liter drums from your local car dealer or mechanic, usually for gratis (just make sure they are clean inside). Then when your car is almost empty, get 20 liters of e85 and 20 liters of premium petrol in those clean 2x 20 liter metal drums. Go home and pour this E85 + premium into your tank. The strong alcohol dissolves the petrol varnish that forms over the years. Don't drive it with this mixture in the tank, since it;s not E85 compatible, just leave it sitting overnight, ideally giving the car a periodic bounce to shake things up. Then drain as much out as you can out of the tank as you can. It would be ideal to remove the fuel pump via the under seat access (which i think the VZ has). It just makes it easier doing so AND you get a good look into the tank that way (to remove crud if present).

Dispose of the dirty fuel appropriately (put it temporarily into those 2x 20 ltr containers you have). Obviously do this job in a well ventilated area (not a closed garage) and don't smoke and don't wear synthetics that can cause a spark... keep a fire extinguisher handy... and don't work alone... normal safety precautions... Put the fuel pump back in the tank (new screen filter?) and fill up with some quality premium fuel. Could also be wise to put in a bottle or two of cleaner into the tank to help clean the lines and injectors. Run the car and hopefully, if the issue was related to varnish crud, it will clear and start to purr like a kitten.

Only issue to note with the above is whether the tank, lines and seals are E85 compatible, metal tank and lines should be fine but seals? I also don't know what type of tank, lines and seals are in the VZ but the VZ is E10 compatible. But as you've effectively got 20 liters of each, that equates to 70% alcohol (so it's still a high %). If your concerned, reduce to 10 liters E85 with 20 liters of premium = 40% alcohol, or 5 liters E85 to 20ltrs premium = 20% alcohol. I'd guess 1/4 of a tank of 20% alcohol wouldn't be that bad for the components after some 8 hours (and possibly the car will run on this though not recommended).

If you've looked into the tank and there is no crud or varnish, then maybe check the tank venting system and charcoal canister and it's solenoids are working as they should. I've read the tank venting system can cause idling issues if not working correctly.

Only other thing i can think of is off fuel trim can be due to intermittent injector wining issues, injector problems or cat converter contamination causing odd readings thus throwing the baby out with the bath water. These things will result in high fuel consumption. You can safely clean your own old injectors at home or pay someone professional to do it as they also check flow rates, etc.
 

Fu Manchu

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I resolved a long running issue with with performance after swapping the cats with some others of gumtree. I had already had an exhaust shop check for blockages with a temp sensor and all was well. Bolted on the new ones and “Hello”! She was alive again.

This had caused misfires, injector faults, MAF warnings, throttle body warnings.

I had O2 warnings which were sorted by replacing with genuine Bosch sensors, then sorting water from the AC drain leaking into the rear sensor plug.

Repaired slight vacuum leaks on the hoses from the intake manifold.

Further improvements were made by replacing the purge solenoid.

A further big step forward has been enlarging the PCV valve. An easy thing to do that costs next to nothing.
 

Skylarking

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^ Cats can be damaged by contaminated fuel and show no visible indications but they don't convert the nasties as needed. The result is that the ECU struggles to cope. This is not such an issue for VZ but for later designs that have O2 sensors before and after the cat.

But all engines can struggle with blocked cats. It's usually caused by a spark plug or lead failure resulting in unburnt gases in the exhaust which ignite and overheat the cat core which melts and blocks.
 

Fu Manchu

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Mine (MY07) has pre and post cat sensors.
O2 sensors on MY05 were different to MY06 & MY07.

Fantastic post Skylarking.

Incidentally my problems started after running REALLY low on fuel one time.
Timing chain codes appeared. Chains done and car went back to being a rough slug and onto the above things I went.
 
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