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Sudden Loss of Power Steering WHEN DRIVING

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by KrisHolden, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. NewbC4KE

    NewbC4KE Active Member

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    Service steering column lock on again.

    Approximately 2.5 hours after the reprogram of module.

    Awesome.
     
  2. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    @NewbC4KE the service steering lock is a different issue to power steering assistance failure.

    Think of the first as an old style steering lock that gets bound up meaning you can’t turn the key. Think of the second issue as a power steering oil pump failure... fixing one does not fix the other ;)

    Your power steer assistance failure should be fixed by replacing the rack. As the VF has an auto park feature, I’d expect a rack replacement would need some sort of calibration so it works as expected and you don’t end up on the footpath or worse. Maybe the service guys are calling this calibration process a reprogram of the module, I don’t know so best to ask them what they mean so you understand.

    Maybe a change of behaviour could help with service steering lock issue. Before you start the car, move the wheel left and right feeling the limits of movement then place it in the centre of these limits and press the start button. This may help. If it doesn’t help then you may need the steering lock motor and pin looked at. As the lock may be tied to security measures, maybe this also needs some sort of calibration but I doubt a calibration would resolve a me handicap issue...

    If you want to find out more about the finer points of servicing such components, search the forum for the VF workshop manual...

    [edited to add link to thread containing link to manual]
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
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  3. revster

    revster Active Member

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    Not sure of the reality of this but just saw this on FB. "Keep your eye out in your mailbox over the coming weeks, Holden have released a recall on power steering racks for MY14-MY16 VF"
    "Ben Henshaw Nick Jankovski they are vin specific, but pretty much every vehicle between 14-16 get a revised rack motor, steering angle sensor and wiring harness" I can't see anything on the recalls site.
     
  4. 3rspecB

    3rspecB Well-Known Member

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    It could be a service campaign, hence why you can't see it on the recall website. The rocker arm issue on the later built MY17 v8 models was a service campaign and not a safety recall, so it wasn't registered with the government as it doesn't need to be.
    If Holden have initiated a Safety Recall, then it must be registered with the government and will be put on the recall website.

    Hopefully it's not false and Holden are doing something about the VF1 steering racks. Skylarking will be a happy boy.
     
  5. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    It's only Holdens view that the faulty rockers are not a safety concern... but since the issue is being fixed? i guess the regulators weren't going to push the issue of classification (if they’ve even woken up from their slumber and are across these issues).

    Normally a loss of drive is considered a safety issue and results in a safety recall. The fact that an embargo on vehicle deliveries was forced on the dealers by Holden in 2017 only reinforces the point it should have had a safety recall classification and better documented than a service campaign.

    But down under we have only ever had one mandatory (forced) recall for the takata airbag issue which was a long time coming. All others previous safety recalls were voluntary and negotioated between the regulator and manufacturer (including some years ago when a hyundai POS' was loosing front wheel, hub and associated bits and iirc it was not classified as a recall as it upset the sensibility of the Koreans and we couldn’t have them loosing face... as back then we had a regulator with teeth - not).

    Having a car die mid intersection as all vehicles accelerate from the lights is simply dangerous and I’d think few would not see it that way ;) but you're correct that you wont find the rocker issue on the aussie recall website :confused:

    And it’s exactly the same with the power steering issue, loss of control is normally handled via safety recall in most jurisdictions.

    But as I don’t have Facebook, I don’t know what if anything was said on the subject via that medium. In any case I won’t congratulate Holden for sitting on its hands for so long on what I think is a real safety concern that fortunately hasn’t resulted in deaths.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  6. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    Recalls can take a while to set up. The rocker arm repair took many months to start repairing cars. My Director didn't make it home on the 14th August and it wasn't until the following January that the parts were arriving to do the rocker arm fix.
     
  7. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    True that rectification work can be a process in and of itself.

    Meanwhile, the airbag mandatory recall had its corrected parts supply delayed (due to the global nature of the impact and the bankruptcy of takata) and as a result some vehicles are having the airbag changed twice, first to fix the immediate danger caused by the old non phase stabilised airbags which are being replaced with new non phase stabilised airbags (which are available) and later replaced again with phase stabilised airbags (when they become available). And all this after manufacturers said all was ok...

    Such behaviour is not a Holden only issue by any means as all manufacturers don’t like recalling their products as it makes the manufacturers failure too visible (so they all prefer service campaigns).

    Me, as long as the work gets done, and if delayed the vehicle owner knows the technicalities of the issue and accepts the risk of rectification delay, it’s ok. But sadly one can never know such info when it’s a service campaign as such info is proprietary... So about the only way we owners can get such info is if the problem is handled as a recall (and even then, these days such docs have been dumbed down to the point of being almost useless so we still don’t know all we could/should).
     
  8. Pablito

    Pablito Active Member

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    Well Mitsubishi consider possible boot strut failure worthy of a safety recall. We got letter after letter until they were replaced.
    I consider random loss of power steering worse than that.......
    The cost of repair to the manufacturer obviously plays a big part in determining the 'safety' of an issue.
     
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  9. 3rspecB

    3rspecB Well-Known Member

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    If vehicles haven't made it to dealers, manufacturers can also register for port recall which means the fix is applied at the port of entry (holding yards). The good thing is that a newly passed law wont allow new or 2nd hand cars and or bikes that have a safety recall, port recall (not sure if service campaign/fix are also included) against its VIN be registered until rectified, so at least a small win for the consumer.

    Until the governing body tightens its terms and conditions for Safety Recalls, then all manufacturers will tip toe around issuing a nationwide recall, as per skylarking post, recalls damage brand image.
     
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  10. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    And therein lies the rub.

    As we've seen with the Banking Royal Commission and the Senate enquiry into the franchising industry, irrespective of the rules, unless the regulator is appropriately resourced, empowered &/or motivated to go after these large corporates in any meanngful way, the corporate entities involved simply do what they regard as being in their best interests and screw everyone else.
     
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  11. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Even empowered and resourced regulators often get it wrong and sadly there is a term for this, it’s called regulatory capture and is a scourge on society.

    Regulatory capture was in part the cause of nuclear reactor failures at Fukushima. And in days gone by, TEPCO management would have committed seppuku but these modern Japanese managers expected and I think got a government bailout and likley a bonus :oops:was

    Nothing will ever change for business when fines are considered the cost of doing business and shortcuts and corruption are the norm. Only when laws, regulators and courts are working in sync to stamp out the rotten management behaviours through real jail time might things start to improve. But this requires the general public being vocal for such meaningful change, though I think the masses have lost the plot with social media being used for pictures of lunches and pets rather than anything meaningful.

    Civil action has to start somewhere.

    Sadly, it’s difficult enough getting some jc members to even accept something like a power steering assistance failure is actually a dangerous situation for vehicle owners let alone get them to formally report their failures to ACCC/DOTARS.

    Atleast some see that this issue should have always been handled as a safety recall but I can’t bring myself to pat Holden on the back because they may have a service campaign for this serious issue.

    As an example, in France, there is vocal and violent public protest regarding fuel taxes (though I’m not advocating for violence in any way). But down under we have high fuel taxes and parity pricing which pushes up the end cost disproportionately to similar countries that have their own oil reserves.

    We really need to learn to protest (peacefully) and demand change for the better.
     
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  12. wetwork65

    wetwork65 A wet business

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    Great post Skylarking. I feel I am driving a potential "major failure" which really could lead to serious injury/fatality of my family members/other road users. Service bulletins will only help if I use a dealer for a standard service (unlikely now the car is 4 years old) until a proper recall is put in place.
    Recall is the only proper resolution if the problem of a major purchase is that bad.
     
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  13. Builder Joe

    Builder Joe New Member

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    Just had this happen to my wife, with the attached pic. Went googling and found this thread. Thanks to all for the info.

    I immediately rang Holden Customer Care. Upshot is that they are preparing a recall, with parts currently being manufactured, however they won't be available for some months.

    In the meantime they will repair affected cars where they can, though they didn't specify exactly what the 'repair' is. If the dealer is such a bastard as to charge for it, HCC will reimburse the cost. They say.

    I'm booked into Eagers Holden Windsor. (Brisbane). Will update when I've got the car back.

    The future recall number is: A182193280

    image1 (2).jpeg
     
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  14. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Excellent update. Thanks. I might book mine in to beat the rush...
     
  15. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Finally...

    Tried to find out about the campaign number A182193280 from DOTARS itself but all I got was that they are aware of the issue and I should check with ACCC’s recalls web site as that is where it will be announced.

    Sadly the bod I talked to wasn’t able to provide any time frame or technical info. He suggested the normal bureaucratic suffle to ACCC or Holden and wasn’t able to answer anything about the updated components to be replaced nor whether it includes a new rack with gold plated connectors. Stated the typical confidentiality dialogue...

    Still, it’s much better knowing that something is happening and hopefully we’ll get answers soon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  16. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    As I said the other day, recalls take a while to set up. Stock needs to built up so work can start as soon as the recall notice is sent out. I just wished the dealer listened to me with my MY14 Calais V when it failed and said nothing wrong with it....
     
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  17. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    @Anthony121, i agree that recalls can take a while but Holden has known about this issue for a rather long time[1] so excuse me if i don't give them credit for seemingly having their finger up their own (and our) back passage while placing us at risk during their diddling.

    In any case, this recall may not be as great a fix as the US Chevy PPV's got with their new improved rack assemblies containing gold pins. Yes, it's in part speculation by me as Holden will not formally disclose anything but the little verbal info i've gotten seems to indicate we will get new covers, cabling and connectors with gold pins. It all sounds like an in service mod of our existing assemblies so god help us as i'd hate to have to rely on someone disassembling, repairing and replacing bits that weren't designed with such operations in mind. Why such information isn't public NOW, i don't know...

    [1]
    And just to refresh, Aussie taxi drivers publicly complained about this issue in April 2016 which was followed by a US recall on Chevrolet Caprice PPV in March 2016. Oddly, both of these came after the Feb 2015 Holden service campaign (A 140804-ZCS P) where we now know adding grease did bupkis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  18. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    I don't disagree in principle. But it seems to have worked on mine and all but small number of others. Maybe those that failed post this fix are attributable to the inability of pimple nosed apprentices, not following the Holden instructions and poor oversight /QC by their supervisors?
     
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  19. Banjo79

    Banjo79 Active Member

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    For those that pushed for this fix early, let's hope they did the job properly as per the recalls standard and they didn't just use the last of the old racks lying around. I really should have sighted the gold.
     
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  20. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    What’s the current dealer rate for the pimple nosed apprentice working on your car, $100 or so per hour? Gotta love that along with poor comprehension, oversight and QC you get for your $$ :oops:

    But I see this power steering assistance failure in the same light as the takata airbag issue. Sure there have been many many accidents where airbags have deployed with what seems like a trivial number of people impacted (pun intended) globally. Not at all trivial if it was you that got a piece of metal through the jugular. Same same for that loss of steering assistance while hoping you had fangio levels of skill while punting around that tricky corner with 5he shear dropp off on that lovely mountain side :eek:

    In any case, the matter is coming to a close, hopefully for good ;)
     
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