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Sudden Loss of Power Steering WHEN DRIVING

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by KrisHolden, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    @Sabbath' i suspect the dealer is simply trying to say the fault is something for Holden to resolve.

    It’s against the ACL for the seller to send the purchaser to the manufacturer for a remedy. The seller must resolve the problem. Then the seller can recover its loss from the manufacturer via legal action if the manufacturer isn’t accomodating the seller. Seemingly silly and convoluted but it’s the law AND it’s wrong in law for the seller to say ‘nufin to do with us’ go to the manufacturer.

    Simply put the selling dealer needs to get off their arse and call their Holden contacts to arrange immediate authorisation for replacement using an updated steering rack (an available of the shelf part) rather than say wait to around mid year for Holden to get its ducks in a row.

    The seller has the responsibility to fix it so fix it they should.

    Ps: Yes, Fitzie may have been a little vague but that’s rather common on forums where short posts are the norm. And sometimes we can incorrectly read between the lines so clarify is always preferred by me but it is what it is. Hopefully we can focus on the issue rather than who said what and the issue can move forward. I’m curious to find out what the end result will be sooner rather than later.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  2. Fitzie

    Fitzie New Member

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    Update for @Skylarking. I received a text from the dealer. They have put a product called ‘Nurogel’ on the car. I assume this is what you were discussing earlier in the thread. The dealership said this is what Holden told them to do and that if I had further concerns I should call Holden. Local fair trading says it’s not their issue because the dealership has offered a outcome and they can’t determine whether it is an appropriate outcome. They’ve suggested it’s a Department of Infrastructure. Transport (etc) issue although the car was not new and the ACCC have said it’s not an Infrastructure issue if the car is secondhand. I have not picked up the car.

    Edited to add: The dealership has said that Holden hasn’t decided yet to replace the steering racks on the recalled carsThey might decide to replace a sensor or leave the gel solution.

    Trying to get through to Holden. Not have any luck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  3. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    @Fitzie half the battle is to try and get to the correct person within the correct regulatory body. But one usually gets on a silly merry go round going from department to department. They people you chat to can sometimes be real idiots who don’t know their own responsibility and their interfaces to other regulatory bodies (ok idiots may be harsh but often it’s the lack of training which can be purposeful and thus really really frustrating). Sadly it can come down to pot luck whether you get to talk to a knowledgeable person or some department deadweight. That’s life.

    As I understand and has been explained to me by these groups, ACCC looks at problem trends of nation wide concerns and product safety issues but they don’t take up individual concerns and can’t offer individual advice. Meanwhile DOTARS looks at standards based issues (amongst other things) and previously had recall responsibility but this later responsibility now seems to sit somewhere between DOTARS and ACCC. Again they don’t take up individual concerns or offer individual advice.

    So your local fair trading is the group to talk to in getting an understanding of your rights under ACL. The should be defining your rights and providing options on what to do and how to go about it. Thing is, sometimes it seems they forget what they are there for and these phone operators need to be politely reminded of the fact (I usually structure it as a question).

    In any case, you should make the local fair trading aware that Nurogel is simply a dielectric grease that Holden tried as their first failed solution back when... and it didn’t resolve the problem permanently as vehicles with this fix failed again. As such you have no confidence that you’d be safe driving this faulty car with a previously failed fix applied. Ask them to explain your rights and remedies available via ACL and what you can now do. Also ask them to take action with ACCC to make the dealer and Holden aware of their ACL responsibility as they seem to have forgotten their undertaking to ACCC (especially in relation to Holden educating their dealer network to stop this stupid selling dealers view that ACL has nothing to do with them). Best to ask to speak to a senior adviser or manager.

    As for what the selling dealer has done, they have wiped their hands of the issue and sent you to the manufacturer. And I suspect all Holden is doing is trying to buy some time via the Nurogel solution so they don’t have to change the whole rack now before Holden’s kit of parts and work methods are ready (a cheaper solution) and presumably you go on the list and get some recall letter.

    It’s up to you whether you want to accept a temporary possibly part fix but I’d want clarification that your VIN is actually part of the recall (from (Holden) and clarification that the service power steering DTC’s were seen by the dealer and documented as such (via work sheet, work receipt you should have been given). Then I’d move forward from that point.

    Sadly the difficulty with HCC is you can’t talk to any senior person or their state or regional service manager or some other engineering manager directly. You are stuck with a possibly poorly trained phone operator who claims to know but doesn’t. HCC act as a wall at times and it seems their primary duty is to piss off customers.

    Sadly I can understand your frustration.

    Good luck with it.
     
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  4. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    What 1800 033 349 not working?
    Holden shut up shop already?
     
  5. KING46Calais V

    KING46Calais V Active Member

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    and this is exactly where the ACL needs to be enforced. Car with faulty steering doing 110km/h on a public road? If that aint a major fault.....
    Also, the reps from your state consumer tribunal are major fence sitters. They will always er on the side of caution and not tell your direct whether you have an issue or not just, put in an application to have it heard. In the mean time, they get a good dose of $$$ for the application whether you win or lose.

    Listen to Sky and speak to someone higher. Your issue is a bit more serious than a faulty toaster
     
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  6. UTE042_NZ

    UTE042_NZ Well-Known Member

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    If talking to a lackey at a dealership regarding an issue of safety, liability, legal obligations, undertakings, and guarantees, I would ask to escalate it to the Dealer Principal. That might get you a department manager to repeat the request to and he may actually find out if the DP is available (or off playing golf after a long lunch) and/or give you the DP's email address. He or she is the one with the dealer's license on the line, can be negotiated with, makes all the dealership's final decisions.

    TL;DR "I wana talk to the organ grinder, not the monkey"
     
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  7. Sabbath'

    Sabbath' Redblock Jesus

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    In reading responses, this is a Power Assistance issue, and steering is still retained. Correct?
     
  8. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    Yes still have control of the car where it steers.
     
  9. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    Does the Commodore's electric system reduce assistance the faster you go?
    I think some cars do this?
    Regardless, you kinda don't even feel a lack of power steering at 110km/h in oldy-timey cars without it, so it's my belief that it'd barely affect you at 110km/h.
    It's probably more likely to be when you're doing 60 and mid-corner suddenly you lose assistance … it's the fact it's sudden that's the problem, not the actual physical effort required. Our VS had a faulty CAS when we first got it at 10yrs old, stalled randomly maybe once every 3 months, took 1.5yrs to diagnose/fix it - in concept it was a scary to "lose brakes" and "lose steering", but in practice it didn't actually cause us any problems the maybe-dozen times it happened.
     
  10. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    The assistance is greater when the vehicle is not moving then it changes at speed. I drove mine for over 50 kms when the steering failed on the freeway and no trouble except it was heavy. My Calais started without the assistance so it wasn't as you mention a shock as I was driving. More like having a flat tyre.
     
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  11. wobbles123

    wobbles123 Member

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    Mine is Oct.2013 SV6 Auto build and as explained got the recall notice for the middle of 2019.... for those who are interested....but be aware there are 3 separate electronic connections to the electric power steering unit.....whether this applies to all EPS's or maybe these were the early units...I do not know....I heard that it was a full day job....maybe they will have to replace all the wiring....I cannot see them replacing the whole rack!....by the way I have never had any problems with the EPS since the year dot.....in reality all they have to do is replace the EPS unit and wiring....not the rack.....replacing the wiring would be a mine field...it will not be a simple job of splicing a new connector into the existing wiring.....if you can get to it....it would be a total re-wire job!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  12. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    The full rack is being replaced but soon only the motor unit will be replaced.
     
  13. Sabbath'

    Sabbath' Redblock Jesus

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    So, which one of you ding-dongs rang up the Rumor File this morning and made it sound like the steering wheel comes off in your hand when this fault occurs?
     
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  14. wetwork65

    wetwork65 A wet business

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    So, what is the rumor file?
     
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  15. Jay119

    Jay119 New Member

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    Its an issue with most vf series 1 cars. Its a recall. Should be fixed by your dealer for free.
     
  16. wobbles123

    wobbles123 Member

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    Just rang the 1800 number.....a polite gentleman answered the phone....and read to me the official recall notification as supplied by Holden....not the one you got in the mail.....there will be no rack replacement, no electric motor replacement....but only the switches....which I assume will be a wiring loop replacement with the new connectors....the job will take approx. 4 to 5 hours depending on the dealership you take it to and the availability of a time slot.....so there you have it...June/July is the time slot for the next notice in your mail box.... straight from the horse's mouth.
     
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  17. Stefan Nowak

    Stefan Nowak New Member

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    I just called my dealer about this, they're still waiting for parts, they said 'Mid year' to me.

    Dealer was Heartland Blacktown.
     
  18. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he knew what he was talking about. I know exactly what will be replaced.
     
  19. 55ams

    55ams Member

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    WHAT ??
     
  20. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    What did he mean by Switches? There are no switches on the electric power steering.
     

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