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Suddenly it's Hammer Time !!

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by vs-lover, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Well I never thought I'd be asking questions about lifters but here goes.

    On Monday we started my lads Ecotec and it sounded like someone was under the bonnet hitting a hammer on the engine. It did this for about a minute and then suddenly went quiet as to how it should be. We drove into the city and parked it and came back about two hours later and it started again perfectly normal. This engine has been a very good solid quiet performer with no issues to date.

    Now today (Wednesday) we started it again and Hammer time started again, but this time it went on for much longer but eventually it shut up and went back to normal. Again we parked it in the city and came back around two hours later only to have Hammer time return at full pelt. This time it took quite some time to quieten down and the engine was ticking lightly most of the half hour drive home. It was totally quiet by the time we got home.

    Now I'm somewhat perplexed at what's going on here as the scenario is getting worse and not better. I'm not sure if this is a lifter not pumping up due to a blockage or more so a lifter not holding pressure. My theory is the latter but thought I'd throw this out there amongst everyone and get your thoughts.

    Regardless I feel this is a valley out and remove the offending lifter and replacing it as it'll end up creating a burnt valve in the end.

    Cheers.
     
  2. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect its a balance shaft knock. If i was there i could listen and say for sure.
     
  3. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Do balance shaft knocks just suddenly disappear after revving the engine ?
     
  4. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify the sound it is violently loud as if there's no oil pressure, but it's only on one valve and during this time the engine runs a bit rough (unbalanced) while it's clacking, once it stops clacking then the engine runs smooth again.
     
  5. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Haven't tried revving on a cold engine it but mine knocks like yours and goes from loud to a low tap within a few mins.
    Once the oil starts getting into everywhere as it needs to be the noise goes away.
     
  6. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Hi Losh, but this has just started overnight (perfect one day crap the next) and balance shaft stuff generally starts off low and gets worse over a period of time, anyway that's what I'm lead to believe.
    I'm going to remove the engine cover in the morning and have a good listen to it when I start it.

    BTW it's now running on Penrite HPR5 which I've changed to around 4,000ks ago. Not sure what rubbish it had in it before, but it was not serviced regularly nor loved, that's for sure. Opposed to now.
     
  7. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    OK yeah my knock has been there for years just slowly getting louder, well i think its louder these days. I'm thinking of trying a different oil next service and see if the noise reduces. Try some lifter freeup and run it for 500km. Having said that last time i had a sticky lifter it made the engine miss on idle.
     
  8. woteva

    woteva NEED 4 SPEED

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    Sticky lifter for sure. Havn't had the problem with the V6 but did have it on a Nissan 6 VL i owned about 25 years ago. Was going to get new lifter set and almost fell over when quoted over $600. Ended up taking them out and soaked in thinners for a few days to dissolve or soften any varnish causing the lifter to stick. Put them back in and was sweet for another couple of years till I did the same trick again.
     
  9. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Maybe its the oil you used as HPR5 is only is recommended for use in vehicles where SAE 5W-30 or SAE 10W-30 or SAE 5W-40 engine oils were originally recommended by the manufacturer according to their site, that's if its a 90's car.
    Get 20w 50 or 15w 40, thin oil probably burning off while cooling giving you dry starts, thicker oil lubricates and wont dry out as quick. Damage might be already done, fingers crossed its not for your sons sake.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  10. rambunctious

    rambunctious Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree.
    Not Holden but I had the same problem with a new Falcon 40,000 k's on it in 1980.
    One really noisy lifter whenever it felt like making a noise, it would.
    Pulled the head, new set of lifters $40 in those days, problem solved.
     
  11. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Not quite sure what damage (as you suggest) might have been done Trev, can you please elaborate ??
     
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  12. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Yes thanks "Wot and ram" it's pretty much what I thought also, must admit as I don't know much about the previous service intervals that was (maybe wasn't) done, I feel there may be a fair amount of crud within this engine and something has dislodged and blocked the oil supply to one lifters entry point. If I'm going to have to lift the valley (inlet manifold) on this engine then I might as well install a whole new set of lifters opposed to doing just one. Regardless of that this issue may rear it's ugly head again if my fears are correct.
     
  13. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Before I go any further I'm wondering if as Losh suggested would any additive in the oil be of much assistance. Truthfully have always considered additives pretty much snake oil and merely a short term band aid effect, but it's far less work and cost than a top end engine pull down at this point in time.

    BTW as Trev suggested the HPR 5 oil is a tad thin (which I knew at the time) as it's a 5w 40 and I just bought a 10w 50 as a thicker replacement which I was going to do today, but now I'm thinking it a waste of time until the issue is resolved.

    As most of you here would know I'm a bit of a stickler of doing things the correct way, I'm sure Losh could attest to that.
     
  14. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    I have used the lifter free up with good results. Its a bit like a flush but doesn't affect the oil like a flush does, which means you can still drive it. Try the Nulon gear first mate, it won't do damage and it might just fix it.
    Be good to clean out the engine some more before chucking in a whole new set.
     
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  15. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    If the Nulon gear doesn't fix it after 500km it will require parts.
     
  16. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    Yep that's my first port of call I'd say and I'll drop in to Sprints shortly a pick up some of this Nulon gear. Must admit I'm starting to think that Penrite have something in their oil that's dislodging crud as I've done a bit of searching here before I posted and Penrite seems to be the common linked denominator to lifter noise issues. BTW I've always used Mobil 1 and had no issues and now that I've switched to Penrite these issues seem to be arising.
     
  17. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Dry starts, means no oil on metal so no lubrication until the oil starts flowing again hence the reason for knocking, 5w is way to light and is drying up as the motor cools, maybe some seafoam might break down the carbon build up to stop sticky lifters or some sort of additive, have you tried running higher octane like 95 or 98 it has more cleaning agent in the fuel, If the car has high K's I would use 20w 50 or 10w 40 + 10. Also 15w 40 be good, good luck.
     
  18. woteva

    woteva NEED 4 SPEED

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    images (2).jpeg
     
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  19. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Wotever, less I don't use modern day oil in old engines, well not yet anyway dementia hasn't taken over completely yet. I hope I don't ever make that mistake to allow the oil to bake on moving parts as it cools and evaporates.
    Read this on this link. #3. 5w30 vs 10w40 if oil cant lubricate when hot properly then how will it hold on those moving hot parts when the engine is stopped? And yes higher octane contains more cleaning agent which will give you better running performance.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjHg9X25OjlAhWCTX0KHZ8jDGUQFjABegQICxAF&url=https://autooilandfluid.com/5w30-vs-10w30-10w40-0w30/&usg=AOvVaw3IMc3buF2o2lsGocXGJltu

    His a light read for you.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwia5dbT7OjlAhWUT30KHSJNDeUQFjALegQIBBAB&url=https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/dirt-busting-fuel-fact-or-fiction/&usg=AOvVaw0DsNXSna2c57T2XCPyrGrx
     
  20. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    Does sound like some crud has been dislodged, causing a sticky lifter or 2.

    Me personally, I wouldn't use any sort of additive....To me, it's just a bandaid....Giving the engine a good flush and replacing the lifters (if that is the cause), should ensure the issue doesn't rear it's ugly head in the near future....
     

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