Suspected blown head gasket

[vxcommy97]

Hey guys I’m very un knowledgeable about cars so I’m going to do my best to type out everything that’s happened,

Brought my vx 2002 commodore lumnia from a dealership that now has me blocked and refuses to see me,

After 2 days I noticed brown liquid with like copper flakes under my radiator cap shown in the photo

I’ve since then had that flushed and re topped up paid 250 for that

2 weeks later (today) I’ve noticed milky white/brown under the radiator cap as seen in other photo

So oil has gotten into my cooling system I’ve been to two mechanics so far and was told
Head gasket and the other said something about a rocker cover gasket and inlet or something manifold gasket

My car isn’t overheating and hasn’t for the weeks I’ve had it I only noticed the substance under my cap cause instinct said to just check it cause why not and that’s what I found

I guess what my question is by what’s given would anyone know what it sorta is and if so roughly how much I’m on the edge of homelessness I spent my last 4grand to get this car to get to and from work also take my child with asd to her 3 weekly appointments the dealer was well aware of my circumstances and still done this… just need to know what would need to be done and how much thank you so much for the help!

 

[Skylarking]

Welcome to the forum.

Click on this web page https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/cars/buying-a-used-car/warranties

So what date did you buy the car, what was the build date, how many kms did it have on it when you bought. Was there a defect list provided in sales contract. Such details will define whether the dealer must provide a 3 month or 5000kms statutory used vehicle warranty and whether any defects were excluded.

If you qualified for a statutory used car warranty and the dealer blocked you because they wanted the statutory warranty time to expire, then I’d be ringing Consumer Affairs Victoria and discussing the situation and your options.

If the car was older than 10 years (from build date) or more than 160,000 kms on it at the time of sale, your SOL re the statutory used car warranty. But even then, you may be able to pursue an Australian Consume Law statutory warranty claim but that depends on what discussions you had with the selling dealer at time of purchase and what representations they made to you.

Now some general stuff..

As for oil in the radiator, it can come from the auto transmission via a failed cooler which is integrated into the radiator or it can come from the engine Itself.

If it’s trans fluid getting into the cooling system, coolant can also get into the transmission itself which isn’t good. Transmission rebuilds are rather expensive and if coolant has indeed gotten into the trans, if it isn’t dead yet, it will be. Sadly changing the radiator and doing a transmission fluid flush probably won’t really fix any transmission issues after the coolant has gotten into the transmission. If your lucky, and it’s trans fluid in the radiator but no coolant has yet gotten into the trans, a new radiator, trans fluid flush and coolant flush may be enough.

You can check the transmission fluid easily as a VX has a transmission dipstick. So pulling out yje dipstick may be telling enough that you don’t have to dump the trans fluid (though that’s the best way)… In a VE/VF, draining the trans fluid is the only way. Draining the transmission fluid should give you an idea of whether coolant has made its way into the transmission and contaminated the transmission fluid as it’s obvious to look at. If the fluid is not contaminated then you can reuse the fluid if it’s still nice and pink but if it’s brown or black and smells of almonds, pour in new trans fluid into the transmission (really you’d want to also drop the pan and change the filter inside).

If it’s engine oil getting into the cooling system, it can come from a failed head gasket or a failed Lower Intake Manifold (LIM) gasket. Coolant in the engine oil can also cause expensive engine repairs but if caught wry quickly you may avoid lots of damage and cost. If the engine oil dipstick looks like it was dipped into a cappuccino, then you have problems but if it’s just clean oil then you’ve dodged a bullet. If it looks like a cappuccino then you need the issue addressed .

In some models having V6’s they can have issues with LIM blots loosening which can cause the engine oil to leak into t the cooling system. Such can be an easy fix if caught early as the gasket may still be ok.. In such cases simply tighten the bolts to the correct torque should be enough. If that doesn’t work, the LIM gasket may be shot and need to be replaced. Whether your VX has such LIM issues, I’m not sure…

Whether the oil you see on yne radiator cap is hugely concerning at the moment, I don’t know cause pictures aren’t so telling.

But if it is trans or engine oil, really, a mechanic solving oil in the coolant by doing a coolant flush doesn’t solve anything other than him getting a paycheque… Have a word with him and find another mechanic...

Others may be able to be more targeted about the pics..

 

[vxcommy97]

Welcome to the forum.

Click on this web page https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/cars/buying-a-used-car/warranties

So what date did you buy the car, what was the build date, how many kms did it have on it when you bought. Was there a defect list provided in sales contract. Such details will define whether the dealer must provide a 3 month or 5000kms statutory used vehicle warranty and whether any defects were excluded.

If you qualified for a statutory used car warranty and the dealer blocked you because they wanted the statutory warranty time to expire, then I’d be ringing Consumer Affairs Victoria and discussing the situation and your options.

If the car was older than 10 years (from build date) or more than 160,000 kms on it at the time of sale, your SOL re the statutory used car warranty. But even then, you may be able to pursue an Australian Consume Law statutory warranty claim but that depends on what discussions you had with the selling dealer at time of purchase and what representations they made to you.

Now some general stuff..

As for oil in the radiator, it can come from the auto transmission via a failed cooler which is integrated into the radiator or it can come from the engine Itself.

If it’s trans fluid getting into the cooling system, coolant can also get into the transmission itself which isn’t good. Transmission rebuilds are rather expensive and if coolant has indeed gotten into the trans, if it isn’t dead yet, it will be. Sadly changing the radiator and doing a transmission fluid flush probably won’t really fix any transmission issues after the coolant has gotten into the transmission. If your lucky, and it’s trans fluid in the radiator but no coolant has yet gotten into the trans, a new radiator, trans fluid flush and coolant flush may be enough.

You can check the transmission fluid easily as a VX has a transmission dipstick. So pulling out yje dipstick may be telling enough that you don’t have to dump the trans fluid (though that’s the best way)… In a VE/VF, draining the trans fluid is the only way. Draining the transmission fluid should give you an idea of whether coolant has made its way into the transmission and contaminated the transmission fluid as it’s obvious to look at. If the fluid is not contaminated then you can reuse the fluid if it’s still nice and pink but if it’s brown or black and smells of almonds, pour in new trans fluid into the transmission (really you’d want to also drop the pan and change the filter inside).

If it’s engine oil getting into the cooling system, it can come from a failed head gasket or a failed Lower Intake Manifold (LIM) gasket. Coolant in the engine oil can also cause expensive engine repairs but if caught wry quickly you may avoid lots of damage and cost. If the engine oil dipstick looks like it was dipped into a cappuccino, then you have problems but if it’s just clean oil then you’ve dodged a bullet. If it looks like a cappuccino then you need the issue addressed .

In some models having V6’s they can have issues with LIM blots loosening which can cause the engine oil to leak into t the cooling system. Such can be an easy fix if caught early as the gasket may still be ok.. In such cases simply tighten the bolts to the correct torque should be enough. If that doesn’t work, the LIM gasket may be shot and need to be replaced. Whether your VX has such LIM issues, I’m not sure…

Whether the oil you see on yne radiator cap is hugely concerning at the moment, I don’t know cause pictures aren’t so telling.

But if it is trans or engine oil, really, a mechanic solving oil in the coolant by doing a coolant flush doesn’t solve anything other than him getting a paycheque… Have a word with him and find another mechanic...

Others may be able to be more targeted about the pics..

Thank you so much I’ll go check the trans fluid in the morning but I don’t think it’s that well I say they cause the car runs pretty well with no indication of it.

No frothy type substance in my oil
Just under my radiator cap
No overheating and I know 3 days

I brought it two weeks ago
2002 vx commodore
158k on the clock
Idk if there’s any warrenty of any form but on the papers nothing was mentioned of anything being wrong with it besides the head gasket I noticed they took the globe out for the airbag system and I got it tested and I have two fault codes for that he wouldn’t hand me a rwc just quickly showed me *excatly how you would quickly show a playing card to someone and turn it back* weird example but that’s how it was shown

I’m scared I don’t have a leg to stand on

 

[vxcommy97]

Welcome to the forum.

Click on this web page https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/cars/buying-a-used-car/warranties

So what date did you buy the car, what was the build date, how many kms did it have on it when you bought. Was there a defect list provided in sales contract. Such details will define whether the dealer must provide a 3 month or 5000kms statutory used vehicle warranty and whether any defects were excluded.

If you qualified for a statutory used car warranty and the dealer blocked you because they wanted the statutory warranty time to expire, then I’d be ringing Consumer Affairs Victoria and discussing the situation and your options.

If the car was older than 10 years (from build date) or more than 160,000 kms on it at the time of sale, your SOL re the statutory used car warranty. But even then, you may be able to pursue an Australian Consume Law statutory warranty claim but that depends on what discussions you had with the selling dealer at time of purchase and what representations they made to you.

Now some general stuff..

As for oil in the radiator, it can come from the auto transmission via a failed cooler which is integrated into the radiator or it can come from the engine Itself.

If it’s trans fluid getting into the cooling system, coolant can also get into the transmission itself which isn’t good. Transmission rebuilds are rather expensive and if coolant has indeed gotten into the trans, if it isn’t dead yet, it will be. Sadly changing the radiator and doing a transmission fluid flush probably won’t really fix any transmission issues after the coolant has gotten into the transmission. If your lucky, and it’s trans fluid in the radiator but no coolant has yet gotten into the trans, a new radiator, trans fluid flush and coolant flush may be enough.

You can check the transmission fluid easily as a VX has a transmission dipstick. So pulling out yje dipstick may be telling enough that you don’t have to dump the trans fluid (though that’s the best way)… In a VE/VF, draining the trans fluid is the only way. Draining the transmission fluid should give you an idea of whether coolant has made its way into the transmission and contaminated the transmission fluid as it’s obvious to look at. If the fluid is not contaminated then you can reuse the fluid if it’s still nice and pink but if it’s brown or black and smells of almonds, pour in new trans fluid into the transmission (really you’d want to also drop the pan and change the filter inside).

If it’s engine oil getting into the cooling system, it can come from a failed head gasket or a failed Lower Intake Manifold (LIM) gasket. Coolant in the engine oil can also cause expensive engine repairs but if caught wry quickly you may avoid lots of damage and cost. If the engine oil dipstick looks like it was dipped into a cappuccino, then you have problems but if it’s just clean oil then you’ve dodged a bullet. If it looks like a cappuccino then you need the issue addressed .

In some models having V6’s they can have issues with LIM blots loosening which can cause the engine oil to leak into t the cooling system. Such can be an easy fix if caught early as the gasket may still be ok.. In such cases simply tighten the bolts to the correct torque should be enough. If that doesn’t work, the LIM gasket may be shot and need to be replaced. Whether your VX has such LIM issues, I’m not sure…

Whether the oil you see on yne radiator cap is hugely concerning at the moment, I don’t know cause pictures aren’t so telling.

But if it is trans or engine oil, really, a mechanic solving oil in the coolant by doing a coolant flush doesn’t solve anything other than him getting a paycheque… Have a word with him and find another mechanic...

Others may be able to be more targeted about the pics..

Definitely not ln the trans that’s a nice red colour as it should be

Everything on the car looks a okay except for that milky sludge under the radiator cap

 

[Skylarking]

Idk if there’s any warrenty of any form but on the papers nothing was mentioned of anything being wrong with it besides the head gasket. I noticed they took the globe out for the airbag system and I got it tested and I have two fault codes for that he wouldn’t hand me a rwc

Did you click on the link I provided and read the page from CAV. That page defines the law that is a “used vehicle statutory warranty”. As it’s a law, if you meet the conditions, it can’t be excluded by the seller.

So if your car was less than 10 years old when you bought it, as defined by the build date on the build plate within the engine bay and the car has < than 160,000kms at time of sale, then you are covered by this statutory warranty as defined in law.

So no need to be scared, just pop the bonnet and check the build plate and tell us when the car was made, what date you signed the contract to buy it and the kms listed on the contract (which should be the same as what’s shown on the odo).

The only caveat as to what is covered is what’s listed in a “defect notice” which must have been displayed on the vehicle when sitting on the sales lot. The defect notice must also be included in tne sales contract that you signed, else such other bits of scrap paper do not make a defect notice.

If a legit defect notice was included in the sales contract and listed only a faulty head gasket, well you can’t claim that defect under your 3 month statutory warranty. But the Diagnostic Trouble Codes and the issues associated with those codes should be repaired by the selling dealer under the terms of the statutory warranty (it’s law).

I think it’s really important that you check the build date to determine if the vehicle was less than 10 years old at the time you signed the contract to buy.

On the issue of the airbag globe being removed, when a dealer sells a used car it’s supposed to be sold with a roadworthy. So you shouldn’t need to be getting a roadworthy at all.

If the airbag globe was removed by the car dealer, to hide the faulty airbag system, it couldn’t have been roadworthy on the day it was sold… If the dealer had done the wrong thing and removed the globe to hide the defect, such shenanigans could cost them their license to do roadworthies if it’s reported to VicRoads.

But before you get to reporting such shitfuckery to VicRoads, I again think it’s vitally important that you call Consumer Affairs Victoria and have a discussion with them about your situation. That way you get direct advice on how to proceed straight from the horses mouth so to say…

 

[Martbar]

Definitely not ln the trans that’s a nice red colour as it should be

Everything on the car looks a okay except for that milky sludge under the radiator cap

So no radiator fluid in the trans or motor, I'm surprised that the mechanics didn't do a compression test. That would've given you a better idea of what was happening. Good luck, as Skylarking said you might have to go to consumer affairs for the dealership to take action. Sometimes the threat of lodging a
complaint is enough to make them do the right thing.

 

[vxcommy97]

Did you click on the link I provided and read the page from CAV. That page defines the law that is a “used vehicle statutory warranty”. As it’s a law, if you meet the conditions, it can’t be excluded by the seller.

So if your car was less than 10 years old when you bought it, as defined by the build date on the build plate within the engine bay and the car has < than 160,000kms at time of sale, then you are covered by this statutory warranty as defined in law.

So no need to be scared, just pop the bonnet and check the build plate and tell us when the car was made, what date you signed the contract to buy it and the kms listed on the contract (which should be the same as what’s shown on the odo).

The only caveat as to what is covered is what’s listed in a “defect notice” which must have been displayed on the vehicle when sitting on the sales lot. The defect notice must also be included in tne sales contract that you signed, else such other bits of scrap paper do not make a defect notice.

If a legit defect notice was included in the sales contract and listed only a faulty head gasket, well you can’t claim that defect under your 3 month statutory warranty. But the Diagnostic Trouble Codes and the issues associated with those codes should be repaired by the selling dealer under the terms of the statutory warranty (it’s law).

I think it’s really important that you check the build date to determine if the vehicle was less than 10 years old at the time you signed the contract to buy.

On the issue of the airbag globe being removed, when a dealer sells a used car it’s supposed to be sold with a roadworthy. So you shouldn’t need to be getting a roadworthy at all.

If the airbag globe was removed by the car dealer, to hide the faulty airbag system, it couldn’t have been roadworthy on the day it was sold… If the dealer had done the wrong thing and removed the globe to hide the defect, such shenanigans could cost them their license to do roadworthies if it’s reported to VicRoads.

But before you get to reporting such shitfuckery to VicRoads, I again think it’s vitally important that you call Consumer Affairs Victoria and have a discussion with them about your situation. That way you get direct advice on how to proceed straight from the horses mouth so to say…

Thank you it’s definitely a 20 year old car but if you think it’s still covered since it’s less than 160k clicks than I’m going to call consumer affairs i did wake up to a voice message saying they want to see me Tuesday morning at 9:30 for a meeting so depending how that goes I might not call consumer affairs (if they have the decency to fix those issues) I might just call consumer affairs if they try to throw the blame at me so I’ll give everyone a update Tuesday thanks again I really thought I was F***ed I also went over all papers I signed and not one said it has a possible head gasket issue or airbag system issue

 

[Martbar]

So no radiator fluid in the trans or motor, I'm surprised that the mechanics didn't do a compression test. That would've given you a better idea of what was happening. Good luck, as Skylarking said you might have to go to consumer affairs for the dealership to take action. Sometimes the threat of lodging a
complaint is enough to make them do the right thing.

I'm assuming that they would have taken the r/cap off and checked for bubbles, when the engine was up to temperature.
Good luck for Tues.

 

[Skylarking]

Thank you it’s definitely a 20 year old car

Doh, yes you did say 2002 VX which is 20 years old and thus definitely not covered by the used car statutory warranty.

Don’t know why I continued to read and think it was near the 10 year threshold … I’ll blame it on a headache I've had all day, poor eyesight and dyslexia as I’m sure I was seeing 2012

Anyway, no “used car statutory warranty” but because you bought it from a business you are still covered by “ACL consumer guarantees” which require the product sold (even used products) must be of acceptable quality and free from defects. The law can’t be excluded by the seller and is on top of any other law or guarantee.

So the fact they sold a vehicle with a known defect (removed airbag light) which hides the fault that exists with a safety system one could argue faulty safety system = major fault under ACL which give the choice of remedy to the purchaser. Read the following

Consumer rights and guarantees

Consumers have the right to expect certain things when they buy a product or service. These rights are protected under consumer law and are known as consumer guarantees.

www.accc.gov.au

Ultimately, relax and don’t be confrontational as that just makes things adversarial. Work through your concerns in a factual, firm but polite manner on Tuesday when you meet up with them. I hope things go well and all your concerns and all the defects are sorted.

Cheers and good luck…

 

[Skylarking]

I'm assuming that they would have taken the r/cap off and checked for bubbles, when the engine was up to temperature.
Good luck for Tues.

A mechanic would have an exhaust gas detector that they put in place of the radiator cap and would be the go to tool if they suspect a blown head gasket… much more definitive than checking for bubbles…

https://www.repco.com.au/en/tools-equipment/automotive-tools/engine-drivetrain/repco-combustion-leak-detector-kit-rst180/p/A9445088

or

Server Busy

And unless op know cars cars really well, never remove radiator caps on hot motors as getting it wrong can be painful and end up in a couple of nights in hospital (especially for the stupid VF radiator screw on cap)