Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Synthetic oil not fully synthetic?

MR VXS2

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
59
Reaction score
25
Points
8
Location
Wollongong Region
Members Ride
VZS2 Dual Fuel Wagon
An interesting read to say the least. I wonder which oils use what base group?
Have a read...

What about synthetic motor oils? Do they need Viscosity Additives?
Group IV (4) and Group V (5) base oil (synthetics) are chemically made from uniform molecules with no paraffin and generally don't need Viscosity Additives. However, in recent years Group III (3) based oils have been labeled "synthetic" through a legal loophole. These are petroleum based Group II (2) oils that have had the sulfur refined out making them more pure and longer lasting. Group III (3) "synthetic" motor oils must employ Viscosity Additives being petroleum based.

Group V (5) based synthetics are usually not compatible with petroleum or petroleum fuels and have poor seal swell. These are used for air compressors, hydraulics, etc. It's the Group IV (4) PAO based synthetics that make the best motor oils. They are compatible with petroleum based oils and fuels plus they have better seal swell than petroleum. Typically PAO based motor oils use no Viscosity Index additives yet pass the multi-grade viscosity requirements as a straight weight! This makes them ideal under a greater temperature range. One advantage of not having to employ Viscosity Improving additives is having a more pure undiluted lubricant that can be loaded with more longevity and performance additives to keep the oil cleaner longer with better mileage/horsepower.

How do I know what motor oil is a Group IV (4) based PAO synthetic motor oil?
As more and more large oil companies switched their "synthetic" motor oils to the less expensive/more profitable Group III (3) base stocks it has become much easier to identify which are PAO based true synthetic. Of the large oil companies, only Mobil 1 Extended Performance, as of this writing (12-16-2012), is still a PAO based true synthetic. The rest, including regular Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge have switched to the cheaper/more profitable Group III (3) petroleum based "synthetic" motor oil. AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils are PAO based true synthetic motor oils with the exception of the short oil drain OE and XL synthetic motor oils sold at some Auto Parts Stores and Quick Oil Change Centers. This leaves more than 20 PAO based true synthetic motor oils manufactured and marketed by AMSOIL with only a few Group III (3) based synthetic motor oils identified by the "OE" and "XL" product name.

So as you can see, the average performance of motor oils can be affected by how they change during their service life. Multi grade petroleum can lose viscosity and thin causing accelerated wear as the VI additives shear back. Straight weight petroleum (i.e. SAE 30, SAE 40) thicken a lot as they cool meaning longer time before lubricant reaches critical parts on cold starts, but have no VI additives so they resists thinning. However, they can degrade and thicken as heat and by products of combustion affect the unsaturated chemistry. Group III (3) synthetics resists this degradation much better, but being petroleum based employ some VI additives which is a negative and typically don't have as good performance in the volatility viscosity retention areas. Only the Group IV (4) PAO base synthetics have the saturated chemistry to resist degrading when exposed to the by products of combustion and heat, plus typically employ no VI additives making them very thermally stable for longer periods. For this reason the Group IV (4) synthetics maintain peak mileage and power throughout their service life
 

ar5boosted

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Messages
29
Reaction score
7
Points
3
Age
57
Location
Sydney
Website
www.ar5boosted
Members Ride
VZ SV6
Often it's not so much about what base products are used, but what the final mix results achieve.

Tuning of the oil to conditions is everything.

It's really hard to go past Nulon or Penrite in their premium ranges in this country for quality product.

I'm not against any Premium product that needs to incorporate non-synthetic components to achieve it's end goal.

Results are everything.
 

MR VXS2

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
59
Reaction score
25
Points
8
Location
Wollongong Region
Members Ride
VZS2 Dual Fuel Wagon
I didn't realise there was so much technology involved behind oils, lol
 

Immortality

Can't live without smoky bacon!
Staff member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
22,624
Reaction score
20,506
Points
113
Location
Sth Auck, NZ
Members Ride
HSV VS Senator, VX Calais II L67
Plenty of technology in oils but I prefer to run a semi-synthetic in our V6. Engine runs really quiet on the stuff no need for the more exotic and expensive full synthetic stuff.

As long as the oil you use meets or exceeds the oil specified for your engine and you stick to the recommended service intervals than all should be happy.
 

delcowizzid

on holiday
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
6,988
Reaction score
445
Points
83
Location
NZ
Members Ride
в∞ѕтεכ √&
We've run $15 bottles of gulf western to penrite hpr30 in high load situation making triple stock power with 0 issues oils oil use the right weight and change it at a decent interval no worries it all ends up full of fuel dirt and carbon and needs chucked out wether it be cheap or expensive stuff and more often than not it's dirty and drained out before any additives expend there life
 

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
I just run what is recommended by the manufacturer, you're over thinking it.
 

aa23

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
293
Reaction score
14
Points
18
Age
60
Location
Melb.
Members Ride
VS Acclaim
I've always wondered how much of the oil content is needed to be classed as "Semi Synthetic". Mineral based with a teaspoon of synthetic could be classed as semi?
 
Top