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Terms and Rules vs Forum Rules

Discussion in 'Site Feedback / Site Problems' started by monstar, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Yes on the subject of those things "not allowed" (now that means immediate permanent ban apparently), I was recently asked where the hell Forum Rules actually located on the site map, on behalf of someone who genuinely couldn't find it. Then it occurred to me that most modern (mobile phone / tablet) users actually don't get to see the link to Terms and Rules as old school desktop users did.
    Importantly the Terms and Rules "agreement link" you check upon registration is exclusive of, and not linked to the Forum Rules information.
    In fact once a member is registered and has agreed to the fair Terms and Rules bit, there is no way to access the seperate more draconian punitive penalty action for actions described as simply not allowed under Forum Rules, unless you are logged in on a desktop computer and search the desktop for a hidden link like an Easter egg.
    Is no wonder people are surprised when courteously advised something is against Forum Rules, because likely very few new members can actually see it, never mind read and take note of it. BTW if we are being encouraged to login using FaceBook and utilise its promotional marketing features perhaps there is a brief explanation as to how NOT to create a second account, as with the current complication it is an easy mistake for new players.
    Also worth noting is the entire infraction warning system, as most older members understand and happily agreed to, seems to be abandoned, also that a moderator now does not need to justify actions based on any rules.
    I have no reason to complain, just an important point of order and compliance to maybe bring to @Darren 's attention, that the policy of minimal moderation and self-regulation seems to work in the main except where, as noted above, a new member has not had the opportunity to read the rules by which they are summarily banned by a moderator. Seems unfair without any reference or notice in the Terms and Rules that registration for membership depends on agreeing to the Forum Rules and that a link be provided to that information.
    This precipitates an ethical point: The "good standing" of a member's relationship to any moderator on the team should not influence application of the Forum Rules, lest the hidden rules as described, and unconditional power of the moderator as above, could be grossly misinterpreted. For example if a member of good standing trolls a thread with massively offensive opinion contrary to the Just Commodores forum ethos, to deliberately get a rise from pure argument, then we see a new very enthusiastic, typically disciplined and decent ex ADF sgt (who has not had the opportunity to read the Forum Rules) is permanently banned for retaliating, that seems unfair.
    I suggest the application of punitive powers in banning the honourable ADF sgt does not deter trolling at all as the member of good standing will continue as resident protagonist (stirrer) and members are none the wiser about the Forum Rules and penalties, including changes to the infraction system and absolute power of any moderator irrespective of the agreed rules.
     
  2. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Right, guess you have to be privy to the whole story/incident before the above makes proper sense.
     
  3. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Unless you sign up on a desktop there is no way possible that you agreed to the Forum Rules. Rather you agreed to something a hell of a lot more equitable and fair called Terms and Rules.
    You actually don’t see or called notice to the fact that Forum Rules are separately defined elsewhere, hidden, until it is too late.
    I can't imagine why it would be deliberate, a tragic informational design mistake but someone really needs to point out the rules else... it’s a trap!
    • Do you know the Forum Rules?
    • Did you agree to those rules?
    • Do you know what is not allowed and incur an immediate permanent ban vs the notional hierarchial levels of infraction?
    • Do you know where to refer to those rules on a mobile device? Or navigate on a desktop?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  4. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    I briefly read the rules from my laptop a long time ago. I tend to know the ones that affect me and those pertaining to a particular forum, say trading or pic of the day. I wouldn't know the ones that get you banned for a once off. But I don't think it would be rocket science either, knowing what is absolutely unacceptable because those rules would apply in most online forums. Some of the rules you learn over time from posts being delted.
     
  5. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Right, both those are summarised and pinned as a notice in the respective Forum Section.
    It is possible you agreed to JC member privileges without reading the Forum Rules in entirety, and through a process of deduction worked out what works. There's some interesting stuff like the use of caps and creating a duplicate post worth knowing (not allowed).
     
  6. Tonner Matt

    Tonner Matt Well-Known Member

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    I just had a look for the Rules and this is what I found:
    On my laptop....Terms and Rules link is at bottom right hand corner of the page
    On my iPhone...Terms and Rules link is at bottom right hand corner of the page

    If you click on Terms and Rules in the bottom right hand corner it will open up to this page:
    https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/help/terms
    The Forum Rules section can then be selected from the box on the left.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  7. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Goodo. You missed the point, Terms and Rules has nothing to do with Forum Rules either at registration or otherwise in plain view.
    At registration on a mobile device you agree to Terms and Rules as defined, there is no mention of the more draconian Forum Rules. You can't possibly know that or it's importance before you agree to Terms and Rules in exchange for membership privilege.
     
  8. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Who is this ?
     
  9. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I remember something about caps but i never use them unless its beginning a sentence or an abbreviation. I have only ever had two posts deleted. One was because I didnt check the rules on the pic of the day thread and the other was deleted as i thought it may have been soon after I posted it. Yes of course i didn't read all the rules, who would when you have a reasonable idea of what they pertain to after using forums for 15 years.
     
  10. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    What are the draconian rules you mentioned monster?
     
  11. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    @Tryg - OK his rank is AU Royal Naval - Chief Petty Officer which the equivalent of colour sergeant in the Royal Marines, staff sergeant in the Army, and flight sergeant in the Royal Air Force.
     
  12. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    Forum rules can be found at the same link, it's the last item on the list.
    https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/help/forum-rules/
     
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  13. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Mate, this is a thread about Forum rules within the Site Suggestion section for @Darren highlighting among other things being held responsible for not adhering to the Forum Rules when they are relatively hidden and unknown to members, even long standing members like yourself.
    I am happy to discuss the Forum Rules particularly the more draconian ones, in a private conversation but to pull divide and discuss elements of that holy document on this thread does dilute the points being made above.
     
  14. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Thanks, but that is not the same link as presented at registration or at the bottom right of the footer else you missed the point. I agree that should be the promoted link address but it isn't. As I said access to that hierarchy does not appear for members registering using a mobile device, and as evidenced by @losh1971 even long time members have no idea where to find it once privilege is granted.
    This confusion seems unfair, as played out in the circumstance surrounding @Tryg called out for a) retaliating with member abuse; and b) having a second account. The Forum Rules are clear on both, however the Forum Rules are not promoted as readily available / part and parcel to the member agreement of all members, and those Forum Rules are not necessarily applied to a member favoured as long standing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  15. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks....I obviously missed something there....did not know he was banned.....didn't see any dubious posts from him either.
     
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  16. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    As a short term solution I have re-posted the Forum Rules at the top of this section.

    I will speak with Darren as to how we can make access easier/clearer for all members regardless of the device been used to acces the forum.
     
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  17. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Thanks, that's truly great from an information design perspective. However the intrinsic issue is that the forum has lost @Tryg who is genuinely passionate about Just Commodores yet had no idea he was doing wrong or overstepping the mark. A) by exchanging remarks with a seasoned thread protagonist who knows all the rules and conditions of engagement; B) signing up as conveniently promoted - without instruction - by utilising a FaceBook account as an alternative login.
    Bottom line no quarter given to a decent bloke who demonstrated nothing but support and praise for JC community and the Commodore.
    @Darren I respectfully request further consideration in light of the confusing circumstance that the ban be rescinded in favour of reasonable infraction points in the interest of fairness and goodwill.
     
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  18. Sabbath'

    Sabbath' Shipwrecked

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    Monstar....how many accounts have you had and been banned on? Just asking for a friend.

    Also, can you let it go that alternate points of views to yours, arent trolling? Do you seriously think sitting there and labelling anybody with an alternate opinion or outlook to yours as a troll does you any favours?
     
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  19. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Ask your mod friend(s), else mind your own eh, stirring the crap out of decent members passionate about their Australian built Commodore just makes you more unpopular.
    Oh and should you feel abusive again use the shoutbox, that's partly what it's there for not the main forum.
     
  20. Sabbath'

    Sabbath' Shipwrecked

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    Which decent members would those be? The ones who use personal attacks and insults in absence of anything intellectual to say? Or the ones who multi account? Also, as far as "mod friend(s)" go, the rules apply just as much for myself as they do anybody else so your vindictive notion and hatred towards a certain group of people because you deem them to be part of some "club" that you dont feel you belong to is pretty misguided to say the least.
     
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