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The Govt makes cars safer to increase the road toll

vlv8vic

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Short answer to OP question - no i don't agree.
 

Stressball

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This is all reeking of conspiracy theory nutter-ism to me.

There are two options when it comes to car safety: Improve it and hopefully save lives, or leave as is and let people die in more crashes than might occur if improvements are made.

The problem is, you can't guarantee that either one of these will save lives over the other. The problem is the human brain. Subconsciously, the human brain uses Risk Compensation. Take, for example, two dojos that train children in a form of martial arts, the same martial art at each dojo. Say one of them insists on using padding all over the body, whereas the other is purely hand to hand, no pads. Other variables aside, the injury rates will remain steady with each other, because the brain will take greater risks when it is under the impression more safety is apparent.

When you improve a cars safety by including ABS, people will compensate for that risk, and brake later. When you improve suspension, they will take bumps and corners faster. When you improve tyres, they will drive quicker on loose surfaces, or wet roads. However, if you improve them with something that is not immediately apparent, the safety increases but the compensation does not. This would be the case in situations such as the introduction of safety glass into car windscreens. The safety feature is not accounted for by the brain, because to the driver, nothing has changed.

Governments trying to increase revenue by 'tempting' people into driving beyond their capabilities? Bollocks. It's all a matter of science, not politics.
 

Tas_HSV

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Disagree with the whole "safer cars to encourage speeding" theory,illogical and plain stupid.A theory a bit closer to the truth might read "safer cars built to protect car companys from multimillion $$$$ lawsuits"....food for thought.But the whole road safety/speeding debate is also completly illogical.....If the governments were serious about road safety,wouldnt there be government sponsored and funded defensive driving/advanced driver training courses?and courses have to be completed BEFORE you are allowed to drive on a public road.Mandatory retesting every 5 years?Better restrictions on driving under the influence of medication?I regulary see junkies going into the local chemist,getting their methodone fix,and LEGALLY driving away.....same as people on morphine/opiate based painkillers....give me 2 nurofen+ tablets and im a bloody zombie,but legally im allowed to drive.....to be quite honest,im suprised the road toll isnt a lot worse than it is.....but all our governments try to do is take the easy road,use sensationalist media reports to make new laws to attack modifyed car owners with these discriminatory anti hooning laws,to draw attention away from the inadequete driver testing and training/badly maintained road networks and complete and utter failiure of any government to do anything about it......And anyone who thinks speed cameras do anything for the road toll are idiots.
 

danja

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Disagree with the whole "safer cars to encourage speeding" theory,illogical and plain stupid.

Try doing 110 on the freeway in a go-kart, then tell me that theory is illogical.

Sorry, I tried to read the rest of what you wrote but gave up.
 

Tas_HSV

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Try doing 110 on the freeway in a go-kart, then tell me that theory is illogical.

Sorry, I tried to read the rest of what you wrote but gave up.


To be quite honest,I dont see how doing 110 in a kart is going to prove that if I trade my non airbag VR clubby on a VS clubby with airbags,Im going to automaticly drive faster......
 

danja

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To be quite honest,I dont see how doing 110 in a kart is going to prove that if I trade my non airbag VR clubby on a VS clubby with airbags,Im going to automaticly drive faster......

The point was that people have an acceptable level of perceived danger they'll expose themselves to. If you're going very fast in an old bucket of bolts, and everything is rattling so hard it sounds like it's going to fall off, most people won't push it as hard as a newer, safer, more sturdy car (all else being equal).

I get a lot of people commenting in my VZ that when we're doing 110 on the freeway it feels like 80 because the interior is relatively quiet and the car feels very stable, so they don't feel like they're going fast yet.

Wether you trading a VR for a VS would make you drive faster would depend on your perception of the cars safety, not it's actual safety - that's the important point.

Stressball did a good job of explaining it, and his point about ABS has in fact been scientifically tested.
An investigation of behavioural adaptation to airb...[Accid Anal Prev. 1997] - PubMed Result
Study: Airbags, antilock brakes not likely to reduce accidents, injuries
 

commsirac

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Stressball did a good job of explaining it, and his point about ABS has in fact been scientifically tested.
.html]Study: Airbags, antilock brakes not likely to reduce accidents, injuries[/url]

What hasnt been 'scientifically" tested is whether anti lock brakes do make the car safer in real world driving, I cant see that they wouldnt, apart from on soft surfaces etc, but it doesnt appear to be a a theme that has been investigated.
 

danja

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Calaber

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What hasnt been 'scientifically" tested is whether anti lock brakes do make the car safer in real world driving, I cant see that they wouldnt, apart from on soft surfaces etc, but it doesnt appear to be a a theme that has been investigated.

Recently, I had occasion to stop suddenly whilst travelliing at around 80 kph on the Pacific Highway north of Port Macquarie. I was distracted for some reason and looked back in front to see a four wheel drive had stopped at road works.

If not for the ABS, I would have slotted the 4WD good and proper. The ABS allowed me to hit the brakes and steer to the left to avoid the car, and pull up on the gravel next to him. It was completely my fault - no argument there, but it was the most graphic demonstration to me of the effectiveness of ABS.

I sure don't require scientific proof - I've got personal experience to convince me of their value.
 

commsirac

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Interesting yes, but no it doesnt answer the question about whether abs does make the car safer in real world driving. All it gives is the stats accident rates amongst similar vehicles with and without abs being involved in collisions. As has already been pointed out this could be due to the biggest variable of the lot.....the behaviour of drivers who have made a decision to have or not have abs or know that their car has abs etc.
 
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