Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

The Research and Development Thread!!

Bigfella237

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
527
Reaction score
519
Points
93
Location
Far South Coast of NSW
Members Ride
More cars than I've got space to park!
I hope this is on-topic (and not too stupid a question)...

Doing a resto on an older car with an LS engine conversion, so it will have an E38 ECU but no BCM. However the speedo I want to use has no odometer so I was wondering if the DIC from a VE cluster can:

a) be easily removed from the cluster, or is it surface-mounted to a common PCB

Driver_Information_Center.jpg


and b) be made to work as a stand-alone LCD display?

The schematics look simple enough...

Driver_Information_System_Schematics.jpg


...just power, ground and the high speed LAN with the ECU. I'm hoping this should give me an odometer and (with any luck) trip computer functions?

Is this doable without a degree in electrical engineering? Or is there some after-market solution already available?
 

TazzI

Envyous Customs
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
451
Points
83
Location
Western Australia
Website
www.envyouscustoms.com
Members Ride
Holden VE SS Ute
I hope this is on-topic (and not too stupid a question)...

Doing a resto on an older car with an LS engine conversion, so it will have an E38 ECU but no BCM. However the speedo I want to use has no odometer so I was wondering if the DIC from a VE cluster can:

a) be easily removed from the cluster, or is it surface-mounted to a common PCB


and b) be made to work as a stand-alone LCD display?

...just power, ground and the high speed LAN with the ECU. I'm hoping this should give me an odometer and (with any luck) trip computer functions?

Is this doable without a degree in electrical engineering? Or is there some after-market solution already available?

I guess its kinda ontopic! Im all for a challenge.

Right, so.. to answer the questions

a) the LCD screen can be easily removed from the cluster as its just held in with a ribbon cable.. although this means obviously you will have a giant open hole if the screen is not connected.

b) Im not too sure what you mean by a stand-alone LCD display... do you mean to take the LCD off and reuse it.. or make the screen display what you want in the cluster?. In either case, that would require TONNES of reverse engineering and work to get done. Possible with the right gear and and heeeeeeeeaaaaapppps of free time!


Next, to get the cluster to fire up, thats the easy part. Power.. ground.. and away you go!
BUT, the cluster does not communicate over the same communication BUS as the ECU. ECU is on HSCAN where as the cluster is on its separate bus gmlan.

The ECU does not send data directly to the ECU so you wont be getting the cluster to work properly like that! Also note the cluster will have a huge amount of error alarms going off due to the cluster "looks" for other modules in the car, and if it doesnt see them.. it fires off a warning!
 

TazzI

Envyous Customs
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
451
Points
83
Location
Western Australia
Website
www.envyouscustoms.com
Members Ride
Holden VE SS Ute
On second reading.. do you mean to take the LCD off and use it in a cluster with no odometer reading???

If so.. that would require massive amount of work to interface with the LCD since theres no technical data sheets for them. You would go better buying an LCD screen and microcontroller kit and start playing around with that. That way there will be examples and you can learn to tinker with microcontrollers... the things that truly run everything!
 

Bigfella237

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
527
Reaction score
519
Points
93
Location
Far South Coast of NSW
Members Ride
More cars than I've got space to park!
Thanks, yep the second scenario, I want to use after-market speedo / tacho / etc. (similar to Autometer gauges) but they have no option for an odometer, which I believe is a legal requirement?

I guess the schematic from the workshop manual above is over-simplified, but I wanted to mount the LCD screen by itself and make use of the odometer and possibly trip computer functions. The schematic would have me believe that 12v +/- plus a twisted pair high speed GMLAN to the ECM is all I'd need, I should have known better!

Now that I think about it, I'm sure a BCM would be needed to control other aspects of the LCD screen (such as back-lighting) anyway.

Thanks but it's all starting to sound a little too complex already (I'm still trying to figure out how to send an A/C-on request to an E38 ECM without a BCM or HVAC Module)?
 

TazzI

Envyous Customs
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
451
Points
83
Location
Western Australia
Website
www.envyouscustoms.com
Members Ride
Holden VE SS Ute
Thanks, yep the second scenario, I want to use after-market speedo / tacho / etc. (similar to Autometer gauges) but they have no option for an odometer, which I believe is a legal requirement?

I guess the schematic from the workshop manual above is over-simplified, but I wanted to mount the LCD screen by itself and make use of the odometer and possibly trip computer functions. The schematic would have me believe that 12v +/- plus a twisted pair high speed GMLAN to the ECM is all I'd need, I should have known better!

Now that I think about it, I'm sure a BCM would be needed to control other aspects of the LCD screen (such as back-lighting) anyway.

Thanks but it's all starting to sound a little too complex already (I'm still trying to figure out how to send an A/C-on request to an E38 ECM without a BCM or HVAC Module)?

You will have to use the entire VE cluster if you want to use the odometer and trip computer. You cant strip away the LCD by itself as it is the main cluster board that display the odometer on the LCD and controls the trip computer readings ect. So its either you make you own custom screen display using a microcontroller and lcd kit from somewhere like sparkfun. Or you will have to use the whole VE cluster and fit that to the vehicle.

No no no, gmlan isnt a twisted pair. Its a single communication line protocol. Its not just a matter of hooking gmlan and hscan together.. as there dont communicate the same hence why they are different protocols. It would be like trying to speak english to someone that only knows chinese... they would think your speaking gibberish.

Ah yes, in todays vehicles, they are alot more technical then the olden day vehicles where everything was run using separate wies to turn everything on and off. Whereas now.. everything is done over communication lines.. where special commands get sent to say what the gear is, turn aircon on/off, temp settings ect ect.

Soooo if your looking to do that.. your probably going to have to do a crash course in embedded electronics.. programming... reverse engineering.. and then to begin learning the can protocol.. design a custom embedded device to be able to do all the above ect ect. Its definitely not a simple task!
 

acarmody

Donati..Whoa Green
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
5,920
Reaction score
56
Points
48
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
VX Berlina
Tazzi, if you can find a way to change the different "readout layouts" on the dash I will love you long time.

So at the moment if you have the digital speedo on (VY for my car), the 2 side windows are blank, and that's a waste of space. If you could put like, coolant temp on left and fuel consumption on the right, it would be awesome.
 

TazzI

Envyous Customs
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
451
Points
83
Location
Western Australia
Website
www.envyouscustoms.com
Members Ride
Holden VE SS Ute
Tazzi, if you can find a way to change the different "readout layouts" on the dash I will love you long time.

So at the moment if you have the digital speedo on (VY for my car), the 2 side windows are blank, and that's a waste of space. If you could put like, coolant temp on left and fuel consumption on the right, it would be awesome.

I have been trying to nail that down for years... but.. unfortunately... it doesnt appear to be possible.
The digital speedo (police mode) disables the left and right screens, this also occurs if someone was to enable police mode in a VZ cluster although they naturally have the digital speedo anways so its not needed to enable it.

The only way to get the side screens to work is to actually put a VZ cluster into a VY :beer chug:

Obviously, one cant just pop a VZ straight in, a "patch" harness needs to be used plus a little microcontroller to convert a bit of information to put a VZ cluster into a VY car.
Theres quite a bit of engineering work behind it since the fuel gauge is actually sent over the comms line and not via a wire as found with the VY's the cluster needs. I did look into this but never got around to finishing it.


The only alternative to the above that I have come up with, is to completely replace the screens with colour screens and design a custom display. Would have loved to have done that but couldn't find screens of the exact size to replace them. Or even anything slightly larger since the cutouts could be slightly modified.
 

TazzI

Envyous Customs
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
451
Points
83
Location
Western Australia
Website
www.envyouscustoms.com
Members Ride
Holden VE SS Ute
So Iv had some people wondering what it is Im currently working on....

DesignRed1.PNG


Hopefully not much longer until the envy cable is available!

It will be USB and bluetooth enabled. And will be able to perform diagnostics on VR,VS,VT,VX,VU,VY,VZ,VE and VF Holden commodores! No more confusion with different cables, this all in one cable will eventually be the heart of the new software I develop!
 

Bigfella237

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
527
Reaction score
519
Points
93
Location
Far South Coast of NSW
Members Ride
More cars than I've got space to park!
Your free time has not been wasted, looking good!

So will this cable connect to both GMLAN and HSCAN simultaneously? (Or even alternately?)
 

Mike Litherous

Active Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
276
Reaction score
128
Points
43
Location
Melbourne
Members Ride
VE ssv
Wow lots of cool stuff.

Do you have a humble connector cord that can run my iPhone into the cars audio system. I can do it with the 3.5 mm jack but it doesn't charge the phone and I have no control over it.

Thanks.
 
Top