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The Super Duper Timing Chain Thread!

Capsule

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2010 sv6 sidi engine light came on months ago then went off and on randomly for about 3 weeks, for about a month it's been on all the time, when the weather is hot the car runs sluggish from take off, when it's cooler weather the car runs fine, last week when coming to a stop the engine light started blinking and car was shaking with ruff idle that lasted a minute or so before idle returning to normal with engine light not flashing just on, plugged a scanner in gave p0008 code suggesting timing chain stretch, car has been running fine no noises from chains, if out side temp gets above 30deg it's sluggish, any ideas??

From the Service/Repair manual:

DTC Descriptor
DTC P0008: Engine Position System Performance Bank 1 DTC P0009: Engine Position System Performance Bank 2

Circuit/System Description
The engine control module (ECM) tests for a misalignment between both camshafts on one bank of the engine and the crankshaft. The misalignment would be at an idler sprocket for either bank or at the crankshaft. Once the ECM learns the position of both camshafts on one bank of the engine, the ECM compares the learned values to a reference value. The ECM will set a DTC if both learned values for one bank of the engine are exceeding a calibrated threshold in the same direction.

Conditions for Running the DTC
• DTCs P0010, P0011, P0013, P0014, P0020, P0021, P0023, P0024, P0341, P0342, P0343, P0346, P0347, P0348, P0366, P0367, P0368, P0391, P0392, P0393, P2088, P2089, P2090, P2091, P2092, P2093, P2094 and P2095 are not set.
• The engine is operating.
• The ECM has learned the camshaft positions.
• DTC P0008 and P0009 runs continuously once the above conditions are met.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The ECM detects that both camshafts on either bank of the engine are mis-aligned with the crankshaft for greater than 4 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
DTC P0008 and P0009 are type B DTCs.

Conditions for Clearing the DTC
DTC P0008 and P0009 are type B DTCs.

Diagnostic Aids
• Inspect the engine for any recent engine mechanical repairs. An incorrectly installed secondary timing chain can cause this DTC to set.
• A single failed camshaft actuator or actuator solenoid will not cause this DTC to set. This diagnostic algorithm is designed to detect an alignment condition between a primary intermediate sprocket and the secondary timing chain or the alignment between a primary intermediate sprocket and the crankshaft. Either condition would cause the camshaft timing for both cams on one bank to be off an equal number of degrees.
• The presence of DTCs P0008 and P0009 along with P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 indicates a possible condition with the primary timing chain and the alignment between both intermediate sprockets and the crankshaft or the crankshaft reluctor wheel has moved and is no longer referenced to top dead centre (TDC).
• Observing the desired and actual camshaft angle parameters with a scan tool before a DTC sets, may help to isolate whether a condition is specific to one camshaft, one bank or caused by a condition with the primary crankshaft timing.

Reference Information

DTC Type Reference
Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions

Scan Tool Reference
Control Module References for scan tool information Circuit/System Verification
1. Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.
2. Allow the engine to reach the normal operating temperature.
3. Idle the engine for 10 minutes or until a DTC sets. Observe the DTC information with a scan
tool, DTCs P0008 and P0009 should not set.
4. Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC to verify the DTC does not
reset. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.

Circuit/System Testing
1. Inspect the timing chains and tensioners for excessive wear or misalignment.
⇒ If you find a condition with the timing chains or tensioners, repair as necessary.
2. Inspect the crankshaft reluctor wheel for being mis-positioned on the crankshaft. ⇒ If you find a condition with the crankshaft, repair as necessary.
 

Sv6sidibilly

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Dtc doesn't reset after running to specified requirements only resets hours later??
 

Capsule

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P0008 and P0017 would usually come together because the ECU analyses the cam and crank positions at the same time to see if something is off.

Manual says that, and to me it really looks like you've got a timing chain issue, especially when you read the last bit I've highlighted in bold:

DTC P0016, P0017, P0018, or P0019
Diagnostic Instructions
• Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure. • Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
• Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each diagnostic category

DTC Descriptor
DTC P0016: Crankshaft/Intake Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 1 DTC P0017: Crankshaft/Exhaust Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 1 DTC P0018: Crankshaft/Intake Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 2 DTC P0019: Crankshaft/Exhaust Camshaft Position not Plausible Bank 2

Circuit/System Description
The camshaft position (CMP) actuator system enables the engine control module (ECM) to change the timing of the camshafts while the engine is operating. The CMP actuator solenoid signal from the ECM is pulse width modulated (PWM). The ECM controls the CMP actuator solenoid duty cycle by controlling the amount of solenoid ON time. The CMP actuator solenoid controls the advance or the retard of each camshaft. The CMP actuator solenoid controls the oil flow that applies the pressure to advance or retard the camshafts.
Ignition voltage is supplied directly to the CMP actuator solenoid. The ECM controls the solenoid by grounding the control circuit with a solid state device called a driver. The ECM compares the camshaft position or the camshaft angle to the position of the crankshaft.

Conditions for Running the DTC
• Before the ECM can report DTC P0016, P0017, P0018, or P0019 failed, DTCs P0010, P0011, P0013, P0014, P0020, P0021, P0023, P0024, P0335, P0336, P0338, P0341, P0342, P0343, P0346, P0347, P0348, P0366, P0367, P0368, P0391, P0392, P0393, P2088, P2089, P2090, P2091, P2092, P2093, P2094 and P2095 must run and pass.
• The engine is operating for greater than 5 seconds.
• The engine coolant temperature is between 0-95°C (32-203°F).
• The calculated engine oil temperature is less than 120°C (248°F).
• DTC P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 run continuously once the above conditions are met for approximately 10 minutes.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
• The ECM detects one of the following conditions:
- The ECM detects a deviation in the relationship between a camshaft and the crankshaft. - A camshaft is greater than 10 degrees advanced in relationship to the crankshaft.
- A camshaft is greater than 10 degrees retarded in relationship to the crankshaft.
• The ECM detects the difference between an actual intake camshaft angle and the locked position angle is greater than 15 degrees.
• The ECM detects the difference between an actual exhaust camshaft angle and the locked position angle is greater than 21 degrees.
• The condition exists for greater than 4 seconds or a cumulative of 30 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
DTCs P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 are type B DTCs.

Conditions for Clearing the DTC
DTCs P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 are type B DTCs.

Diagnostic Aids
• Inspect the engine for any recent engine mechanical repairs. An incorrectly installed camshaft, camshaft actuator, camshaft sensor, crankshaft sensor or timing chain can cause this DTC to set.
• An actuator that is in the full advance or retard position can cause this DTC to set.
• The presence of DTCs P0008 and P0009 along with P0016, P0017, P0018 and P0019 indicates a possible condition with the primary timing chain and the alignment between both intermediate sprockets and the crankshaft. Or the crankshaft reluctor wheel has moved and is no longer referenced to top dead centre (TDC).
• Observing the desired and actual camshaft angle parameters with a scan tool before a DTC sets, may help to isolate whether a condition is specific to one camshaft, one bank or caused by a condition with the primary crankshaft timing.
 

aussieakito

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Anyone got any questions about how to do timing chains send me an inbox, ive done over 50 sets..... sadly.
 

Sv6sidibilly

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Correct me if wrong but p0008 is bank 1 meaning bank 1 chain is possibly stretched but p0017 is exhaust cam using the same chain as p0016 intake cam wouldn't that be off? Also your highlighted part states p0008 and p0009 along with 16,17,18,19 or does that mean and/or?
 

Capsule

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Correct me if wrong but p0008 is bank 1 meaning bank 1 chain is possibly stretched but p0017 is exhaust cam using the same chain as p0016 intake cam wouldn't that be off? Also your highlighted part states p0008 and p0009 along with 16,17,18,19 or does that mean and/or?

Maybe the intake cam sensor allows more slack before throwing an error and that would be next one to come up since they are all impacted by the same chain.
 

h8tensv6

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2010 sv6 sidi engine light came on months ago then went off and on randomly for about 3 weeks, for about a month it's been on all the time, when the weather is hot the car runs sluggish from take off, when it's cooler weather the car runs fine, last week when coming to a stop the engine light started blinking and car was shaking with ruff idle that lasted a minute or so before idle returning to normal with engine light not flashing just on, plugged a scanner in gave p0008 code suggesting timing chain stretch, car has been running fine no noises from chains, if out side temp gets above 30deg it's sluggish, any ideas??

I have had this happening on and off now for months. Had it to holden and they cant find anything wrong. I got one of those cheap scan tools from supercheap and keep resetting the code p0008 when it happens but I am just about over it. I will be looking for places to replace the cam chain soon.
 

All5litres

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Just had my chains and tensioners done at Ultratune Salisbury for $1950 with a new water pump, I got about a dozen quotes and they ranged from 1950 all the way up to 4500 so it pays to shop around. Hopefully that helps some Adelaide people out too.
 
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