Torana concept

[Calaber]

I'm with you entirely but you should know the shitstorm people get into over a name. I'm sure you saw the crap over Pontiac using the GTO name plate and then when GM heeded their displeasure they called it a G8 only to have more people bitching. Just go look at the crap over the "SS" nameplate :bang:. Haters gonna hate.

The US buyers of muscle cars are pretty parochial, which was one reason the GTO didn't achieve the success expected of it. It wasn't American in origin and the design, which was so highly praised out here was too "soft" and "amorphous" (that means it blended into the crowd too easily and wasn't distinctive enough), plus it had the name of a true muscle car attached, without the loud exhaust and exterior embellishments it needed to work effectively. The G8 name fitted in with the then current Pontiac model line-up - they already had the G6 and maybe some others.

The SS name is just as sacred as the GTO. The Yanks simply don't like the fact that high performance rear wheel drive GM cars are no longer made in the US and that the "little brother" from Down-under does it so well and is so much better than the local FWD stuff they get over there.

 

[Reaper]

The US buyers of muscle cars are pretty parochial, which was one reason the GTO didn't achieve the success expected of it. It wasn't American in origin and the design, which was so highly praised out here was too "soft" and "amorphous" (that means it blended into the crowd too easily and wasn't distinctive enough), plus it had the name of a true muscle car attached, without the loud exhaust and exterior embellishments it needed to work effectively. The G8 name fitted in with the then current Pontiac model line-up - they already had the G6 and maybe some others.

Indeed it did however for some reason many considered it a "non name" and wouldn't let it go. That said, resale on the (no name) G8's is phenominal over there. Finding a good one is still costing mid $20k for a GXP. Not bad for a near 6yo car that cost around $30k (or just under) from new.

The SS name is just as sacred as the GTO. The Yanks simply don't like the fact that high performance rear wheel drive GM cars are no longer made in the US and that the "little brother" from Down-under does it so well and is so much better than the local FWD stuff they get over there.

The main gripe is they say the SS is a trim level, not a name badge. TBH I think its more NIH syndrome as your touched on above. Most of them are banging on about everything going to Alpha coz American. It doesn't seem to matter that it max size is slightly smaller than the current VE wheel base (Therefore all LWB models are out), costs more to build and weighs just as much (even though smaller car). Is American, is good :thumbsup:. I still say if there is to be another Commodore, it'll be on the yet unreleased Omega platform.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

My opinion on the Monaro is more of a nostalgic one. When Holden badged the 2 door HK a Monaro, it became iconic. The two door HK-T-G and Q were the real Monaros, even the later 4 door variety were not "real" Monaros. Back in the touring car days, the Monaro was a thoroughbred racer. It became a legend. When GMH decided to rebirth the name with a Commodore Coupe, it just doesn't share the same stable.

Similarly the GT. There were a lot of makers sporting the GT name, but in Australia, the GT Falcon was as iconic as the Monaro. When Ford brought it back with the EB, no, sorry, just not right.

With the Torana I have the same opinion, it is an iconic Australian car from an era that few on here were even alive to experience.

Now I'll go back to watching Division 4 on my B&W TV and listening to the Skyhooks my wireless.

 

[Calaber]

My opinion on the Monaro is more of a nostalgic one. When Holden badged the 2 door HK a Monaro, it became iconic. The two door HK-T-G and Q were the real Monaros, even the later 4 door variety were not "real" Monaros. Back in the touring car days, the Monaro was a thoroughbred racer. It became a legend. When GMH decided to rebirth the name with a Commodore Coupe, it just doesn't share the same stable.

Similarly the GT. There were a lot of makers sporting the GT name, but in Australia, the GT Falcon was as iconic as the Monaro. When Ford brought it back with the EB, no, sorry, just not right.

With the Torana I have the same opinion, it is an iconic Australian car from an era that few on here were even alive to experience.

Now I'll go back to watching Division 4 on my B&W TV and listening to the Skyhooks my wireless.

That's a far more sensible reason for not re-inventing the Monaro name. I remember being disappointed when the name was attached to the four door HQ. The car looked great, but it wasn't a "Monaro" and it was further proof that the name was no longer the performance king in the Holden stable.

However, when the Commodore coupe was first shown to the public, there was a clamouring for it to be put into production and called the Monaro. I don't think it was the wrong decision to do so, and it's a lot better than "Commodore Coupe", but what else could it have been called that could have guaranteed the success that the name "Monaro" did?

Regarding the idea of re-birthing the Torana name. As you point out, there is a whole generation on this forum who never saw Torana's race and weren't around when the Torana was in show-rooms, but the name is equally iconic. If Holden HAD introduced a new, smaller model powered by the V6, I don't think reviving the Torana name would have hurt its chances of success.

The only time they have revived a nameplate that should have remained defunct was the Viva. The HA Viva was a crapbox and the revised Lacetti was even worse.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I understand that it was a marketing decision to rebirth the Monaro name. It was indeed a sound commercial decision, but I am saying it was a poor nostalgic one.

Imagine a new 20 billion gigabyte gaming console that has holographic game play with realistic lifesized action and calling it an Atari.....

 

[Calaber]

I understand that it was a marketing decision to rebirth the Monaro name. It was indeed a sound commercial decision, but I am saying it was a poor nostalgic one.

Imagine a new 20 billion gigabyte gaming console that has holographic game play with realistic lifesized action and calling it an Atari.....

Ah yes, but who the hell gets emotional over an Atari? The Monaro name was evocative. It meant something to car lovers.

The interesting thing is that, although Monaro is synonymous with performance in Australia, the Commodore based models were never sold as performance cars. They were always luxury coupes.

But, when it was exported to the States, it was sold as a modern day reincarnation of one of the hottest factory jobs ever sold there.......


.....and it didn't work.

 

[mpower]

Ah yes, but who the hell gets emotional over an Atari? The Monaro name was evocative. It meant something to car lovers.

This actually says a lot to me about how you don't seem to understand what means something to someone else.

The Atari name means a lot to a lot of people, just because you don't associate with the brand means very little to me, I associate quite strongly with the original Atari brand and have read a lot of Atari history etc - it means something to me, I don't really care if it means nothing to you and I'm sure vice versa.

On the Monaro, what can I say - I love it, it's a dream car for me (both the old Kingswood and the newer Commodore versions) and I'm proud to own the latter. Every time I look at mine I get a bit of a buzz, much I'm sure the same way my father got a buzz out of owning one of the HQ versions - it may belong to a different era some may like to think that means the nameplate is dead or misused, but then that's their opinion.

 

[Calaber]

This actually says a lot to me about how you don't seem to understand what means something to someone else.

FFS. It was a flippant remark, not intended to mean anything or offend anybody, made in response to NAAF's post so there's no need to get snippy. I don't go on this forum to pick arguments. So I made a comment you disagreed with. Fine. Leave it there.

 

[gopher]

FFS. It was a flippant remark, not intended to mean anything or offend anybody, made in response to NAAF's post so there's no need to get snippy. I don't go on this forum to pick arguments. So I made a comment you disagreed with. Fine. Leave it there.

Who's the one getting all snippy now?

 

[Calaber]

Well, hullo gopher. Nice to see you again.

Would you like to contribute something of value to this thread?