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Torque converter playing up maybe. ?

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by Terry57, May 22, 2020.

  1. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    Anyway,

    My VF 2014 Evoke Sportswagon has 185000 Klm on it. Fairly sure the TC is starting to head South.

    That would be resonable concidering the milage on it and it's going in the shop for diagnosis on Tuesday.

    Does that sound about right to you guys. ? The car has been sensational by the way and not at all worried about this issue and put it down to fair wear and tare.

    Thanks for ya feed back. TA.
     
  2. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Well maintained vehicles that aren’t abused can last much more than 185000kms without serious issues. But why not describe the conditions you’re actually experiencing so forum members have some information to work with.

    Making a conclusion and asking if it’s correct isn’t the best approach to take ;)
     
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  3. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    Ok then.
    When i start up the motor it sounds normal but when i put it in gear reverse or drive i get a whinning sounds. Not a rattle or other weird noise but a distinct whinning sounds. When i move off the noise totally disappears after a minute or so.
    This started around 1 month ago and is slowly getting worse. Now when i put it in gear i can feel a slight clunk where as before it was smooth.
    Once moving down the road the gear changes are smooth and feel perfectly normal so that sort of brings me to the TV may be my problem.
    Im hoping this is the case because it's not an expensive fix, around 1500 buks.
    Im giving it to a specialist automatic rebuilder to diagnose. Just askin if anyone else has had this problem around 180 K's.

    Thanks.
     
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  4. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Ok, that’s clearer :)

    Unfortunately I’m not sure what would make the whining noise. What’s the trans fluid like? When was it last changed? Have there been any trans fluid leaks?

    If fluid hasn’t been changed in 50,000 to 70,000 kms maybe try a fluid flush and filter change first.

    Obviously it’d be easy to check trans fluid if Holden bothered to put a dipstick on their gearboxes but that would have cost a tenner in extra parts and manufacturers are cheap buggers.

    Other forum members may be able to add some more relevant comments :cool:

    But do let us know what the specialist says once he’s looked at it :)

    ps: auto whines could be from partially blocked filter or low fluid, it’s less likely to be TC issues so I’d think first step would be a professional filter and fluid flush rather than a rebuild. I say that cause google says TC whines are usually accompanied by shifting issues but you’re not having such problems.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  5. Milo 6.0

    Milo 6.0 Active Member

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    Yep,how often do you service the trans?
     
  6. tml678

    tml678 Well-Known Member

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    +1

    Get a full flush done. My bet is you are on your original fluid..?

    IMO trans should be serviced every 40000kms under normal driving and 20000kms under 'severe operating conditions'..(look those up..they aren't as 'severe' as you'd think). And no more than two years in any case.

    transmission/diff servicing is the single most overlooked part of vehicle maintenance.
     
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  7. Merv53

    Merv53 Member

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    As a matter of interest does Holden recommend a service of the auto transmission at any particular mileage or service? I hadn't thought about this but lucky my car has only done 36,000km.
     
  8. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    The service interval on Auto trans required by Holden is 150,000 KLM which in my opinion is stretching it a bit. Anyway that's it.
    I bought this vehicle at 172000 KLM as it was owned by a company and used exclusively for country runs. Full service history and clean as.
    I had a full mechanical check done and it came up clean with no issues.
    My concern was this, When was the last service done on the Auto transmission so I rang the Holden dealer who had done the last service. They came back with an Auto service at 155,000 KLM. That's drop the pan and replace the fluid but not do a full flush which is drain the torque converter. Dude told me Holden do not require it.
    I had an Auto trans cooler fitted not long after I bought the vehicle and had the guy test my Auto trans fluid just to confirm it was good. He give it a big tick and said it was all good. Im towing a van hence the fitting of the cooler.
    So here I am now with this whinning issue. ? Only happens when the vehicle is cold and is only there for the minute or so until I start rolling but it is getting a tad louder and the very slight clunk when put in forward or reverse.
    If this is cured by a proper Auto trans service of the torque converter I'll be extremely happy.
    With the above information does this sound probable ?
    Dunno.
    I'm always onto proper servicing of the Auto trans because the cost to rebuild a box in this vehicle is quite frightenning to say the least.
    Thanks.
     
  9. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    Further more there are no leaks from the box. It is dry as under there so something is going on inside and it's not lack of fluid.
    Ta.
     
  10. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    just see how a proper service does and get all the solenoids purged ect they have a self clean to get all oil out and freshened up when u service it, these autos are all solenoid/valve controlled no physical control from the shifter at all, 150k service life jees if i had one id get it done every 2 years max
     
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  11. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    Thanks for that and the more research I'm doing I'm thinking a full wack proper service might do the trick. The issue I'm having falls short of a bunky Torque converter so I'm hoping a full service will sort it.
    Regards the Holden service interval of 150,000 KLM one would be insane to let it go that long. Fair to say Companies do it because they only do what Holden says but if it was your own car purchased with your hard earned you would be well served to go the two year rule or at least friggin 60,000
    KLM.
    A full rebuild on a VF transmission can run you 6 K and the torque converter is usually done at the same time.

    One does not want to go there so 150000 KLM before the first Trans service is bordering on insanity to me.
    Anyway, I'll report back after the experts have a crack at it.
    Ta
     
  12. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    least the autos get a service interval the manuals are "sealed for life" same as the diff... stuff that tho oil wears out like everything alse so it needs to be changed
     
  13. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    Any one fitted with a functioning Brain box would come to the conclusion that any moving part that requires oil as a lubricant will require a service to maintain maximum efficiency and long life.
    Only reason Auto Companies go this route is simply because they are maximising their returns on failed components.
    Complete and utter Bolliks in my opinion.
    Whatever eh !
     
  14. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Great that it doesn't leak.

    Just keep in mind that it could have been an unsupervised trainee lackey at Holden that 1/2 serviced your auto box and maybe the fluid level was never filled to the correct level to begin with :p And don’t dismiss that there is, what maybe 4 to 5 litres of that 155,000 km old fluid still in there mixing with the 4 litres of new stuff :eek:

    Trans dip sticks are great as it makes checking that the dealer did (at least some parts of) their job correctly just that little bit easier :rolleyes:

    Guess I must get off my butt and install a trans dip stick along with a deeper pan and bigger filter on my ‘doore :eek: no urgency since I’ve yet to get to 10,000kms and don’t tow o_O
     
  15. Milo 6.0

    Milo 6.0 Active Member

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    Trans fluid service at least every 40k or sooner if driven hard or towing.
     
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  16. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please let us know what was found...

    Just be a little analytical if they come back with a doomsday scenario and they say threat you need to spend lots of $$... It could be that lots is wrong but since it seems to drive well once going, I’d thing a good flush and a new filter and seal (often not changed cause supposedly a bugger to get out) should be all that is needed. They should be able to justify any work needed

    Only other comment I can make is that whenever fitting an oil cooler, it needs to be flushed first before running it because it could always have some crap from manufacture within. Even more important if it’s a second hand oil cooler.

    And since it will need a full flush in any case, why not look at a deep pan wide mouth filter upgrade?

    ps: Another thread discusses the deep pan but it seems V8 only though do read the thread as there may be some mentions of V6 solutions.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 11:26 AM
  17. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    The oil has been checked by professionals when they installed the Trans cooler. Oil level correct and fluid meeting the requirements.
    Not much more I could do than that really.
    Your point regards the new oil mixing with the old oil because the Converter was not flushed is valid and why Holden do not require that to be done is anyone's guess.
    A fair guess would be that they make more money because of Torque Converter failures requiring rebuild. Typical business innit.

    As far as changing Trans oil at 40000 KLM when towing also makes good sense. It's a cheap service so why stretch it out on an item that is so very expensive to repair.
    Im towing a van mostly so that will be my service interval for sure.
     
  18. Terry57

    Terry57 Member

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    Regards the Oil cooler. It was fitted new by a highly recommended company in Perth so I can only hope it was flushed properly and fitted in the proper manner.
    I could of fitted a cheaper one but chose to go high ball with a legit company.

    No control over these things except to hope the company does a proper job. We live in hope.
     
  19. tml678

    tml678 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, considering HSV change diff fluid at 36mths/60k service..must look up the transmission service requirement (if they list one) now that I think about it..in any case its getting done next service, which is the 36mth one.

    Yep, this 'sealed for life' is absolute bollocks. What does 'life' mean? My life, the life of the car? I'd suspect the 'life of the warranty'..manufacturers should be taken to task over this ambiguity in my opinion.. All fluid in a vehicle needs to be periodically replaced.

    And to make it appear that the vehicle is cheaper to maintain..during the warranty period..if it goes pop after that..not their problem. It's a disgrace
     
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  20. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Yes it’s a disgrace for manufacturers to not list all service items and wax lyrically about sealed for life of the vehicle any other such ambiguity o_O

    I was even told by one dealer service rep (from another manufacturer) that changing auto fluid and filter is detrimental as the trans fluid needs all those suspended particles to help the bands grip. He then said changing trans oil has result in no drive on some cars they’ve serviced. I asked if that’s the case, why don’t trans oil manufacturers put something akin to sand in the trans oil to “get some band grip” and got a blank look.... the stupid twat :mad:

    And it’s still a frustration that Holden removed the fuel pump access port and doesn’t list a fuel filter replacement period for my commodore. It’s the first car I’ve ever owned that doesn’t have the fuel filter replacement period specified. It better be made of pixie dust and automagically removes any sedimentary crap that makes its way into your tank but I gues the manufacture has gone out of its way to create a profitable job for the dealers. IMHO it’s a woeful design and customer support move and rather bone headed to have done this :oops:
     
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