[202] Triple SU's on VB Commodore

[vc commodore]

Each state should have its own documents that interpret the federal mod rules… so I’d use those docs as the basis of any mods..

By all means, go talk to a person within the registration departments technical team, but if there is a grey area which can be interpreted in a couple of different ways, I’d be cautious using that person favourable interpretation.

And remember, these pen pusher bureaucrats aren’t certification engineers that know about certification… such people are listed on yet another document

I’d hate to be spending $$ over the next few months working on a project only to go back and that person isn’t employed any longer or has had a change of mind. It’s not difficult to end up with a less favourable by the book interpretation that borks my plans…

Unfortunately it gets rather difficult to argue with what’s written down in a doc even if that “friendly guy” is still there. If the administration becomes bureaucratic and digs in to that less than favourable condition, not much you can do other than go to a certification engineer.

I say this because I’ve been caught out by such bureaucratic shitfuckery in the past (luckily not too much of an issue to work around but I was lucky).

By going through a pen pusher and getting a list of relevant engineers, shouldn't matter if they walk into another job the next day....

At the end of the day, it's the engineer that has to be satisfied so they sign off on the modifications and issue the blue mod plate.....

 

[Ginger Beer]

I've engaged with an engineer for a few of my builds, it costs money, but I consider it money well spent

They will basically tell you what is required, and guide you along the way

I also ensure I let my tuner know I want, and they tell me what I need to do to meet emissions if required when they are tuning it prior to the emissions testing

In saying this, a old VB commodore should be fairly easy to sort emissions wise if required, as long you are using a typical engine that they came with

Emissions standards were fairly low in 1980

 

[Smitty]

.....................

Emissions standards were fairly low in 1980

yes and ... no
HX Holden had to deal with the intro of ADR27A and modded their XT4 series of engines... badly
and HZ engines were a carry over. really crap L14 6 cyl engines (V8s were less affected)

GMH was in a mad scramble to NOT release VB with the same rubbish engines... but
neutered 6cyl red motors is what we got installed

VC came along and blue ímproved'XT5 engines (6cyl AND 8 cyl) were the order of the day.

Then the state of NSW went and ruined the party by setting their further restricted version of ADR27A
at least XT5 engines were in the real world (as old XT4 red motors did not comply and Commodores with them? - not saleable in NSW!)

 

[Skylarking]

By going through a pen pusher and getting a list of relevant engineers, shouldn't matter if they walk into another job the next day....

At the end of the day, it's the engineer that has to be satisfied so they sign off on the modifications and issue the blue mod plate.....

Yep that’s how it should work

A rego dept pen pusher should provide mod guidelines and a list of certification engineers which you contract and these cert engineers guide you through the process and sign off on the work. Take that engineers paperwork back to the pen pusher and pay your fee and be done with it without that pen pusher questioning the validity of the engineering work signed off.

But I’ve had rego dept pen pushers act like certification engineers after the fact and start to question whether those mods are ok and be difficult about accepting the limits of their job as they aren’t cert engineers (though that was a while. Ago so maybe they’ve accepted their limits)…

These days the 1st point for anyone is to understand what does and does not require certification using the mod docs your states provides (and usually point to the fed docs). Usually the line between no cert and cert can be worked out via the docs but often you need to talk to a certification engineer to get a clarification in what may be an uncertain or controversial view (such is usually related to later cars with ABS/ESC and the growing variant view of certification rather than old school cars that have limited modern features to manual operated power brakes and a vehicle family approach was the way).

The difficulty is if you only rely on verbal advice, some rego dept pen pusher may get it wrong and you’ll be the one that needs to sort it out before you can be on the road. If that pen pusher has left and whether he walks into another job is irrelevant to the problem you have to resolve.

And being on P-plates in a jurisdiction that doesn't allow one to drive a car that requires engineering approval just makes the issue more problematic when police can pull you over and then either become engineers or just become difficult so you’re back to walking…

IMO it’s much better to hold off on mods and build up a good driving record over your probationary period and then go whole hog once you're on a full license.

 

[the_boozer]

What does it say on the body tag vb only has ADR 27A? a positive crankcase ventilation system, an evaporative emission control system and an exhaust gas recirculation system.

A rego dept pen pusher should provide mod guidelines and a list of certification engineers which you contract and these cert engineers guide you through the process and sign off on the work. Take that engineers paperwork back to the pen pusher and pay your fee and be done with it without that pen pusher questioning the validity of the engineering work signed off.

Have you ever done any of that? Are you sure thats what they do?
Every ginger beer I've delt with has told me you work it out we test it to ensure it complies.
I didn't think an engineer was allowed to certify his own design.
The auto engineer doesnt tell you how to do the job he tests weather or not what you have done complys.

 

[Skylarking]

Have you ever done any of that? Are you sure thats what they do?
Every ginger beer I've delt with has told me you work it out we test it to ensure it complies.
I didn't think an engineer was allowed to certify his own design.
The auto engineer doesnt tell you how to do the job he tests weather or not what you have done

I was talking of the people that work at the rego department and who check the paperwork that the certification engineer provides for mods that require such. These pen pushers are there to check that the correct paper work is provided so you can register your car. Their roles are not that of a certification engineer though when I last dealt with them (admittedly a long time ago) they liked to act like they were bigger than their role required… Through 3xperiance I don’t trust what they say…

Had such occur when I imported a vehicle. The rego bods required certification engineers report and sign off that it complied with a subset of regs. But when they inspected the vehicle, they started to look for issues that the engineer had already signed off on rather than verifying the vehicle VIN, engineering paperwork and roadworthy were all provided and matched the VIN. It should have been a documentation exercise but they wanted it to be more…

Same occurred years later when I helped a mate register a repairable write off which also needed sign off and lots of docs around the repair. The rego bods again tried to act like engineers but again all they were required and needed to do was to verify the vehicle VIN and the paper work provided. They weren't even required to do a roadworthy inspection as that was also provided. But they had small lives and wanted to be all big and powerful PITA bureaucrats to feel good about themselves.

Thats why I say you can’t rely on what the staff at the rego department guys say unless they can back it up with unambiguous documentation that define the modification rules in their state … sadly bureaucracy /= unambiguous but that’s where a cert engineer can sorts it out and signs it off giving peace of mind…

As to certification engineers not telling you how to do the mod, well they do tell you what they expect so that they’d sign off… For example, @Ron Burgundy was told by his engineer that he wanted proof where the Brembo brakes were purchased (I.e. the wrecker must provide a doc on business letterhead listing the VIN of vehicle that the brakes came from). In my book that’s telling you how to do the mod. Like everything in life, differences exist on what one mod certification engineer expect of their clients and even on how some rules are interpreted as compared to another cert engineer.

In any case, certifying compliance is not certifying a design… many car manufacturers have produced and continue to produce unsafe “certified“ cars. German diesel pollution engineers not withstanding

 

[vc commodore]

The only dealings I have had with QLD and mods was a factory 6 seater car I went to register.....The car had the mother in law seat....The roadworthy fella wanted me to get a mod plate changing it from a factory 6 seater to a 5 seater because he didn't believe the seat was a factory option.....

Lets just say, the roadworthy fella fell flat on his face, when I went to the place he suggested for the mod plate and that place rang him saying he was stupid and the seat was a factory seat....So no mod plate was required...