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Truth about the MAFless tune.

ConstantVelocity

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The yanks do it all the time, but the vt-vy maf is a restriction especially when cammed. I'd grab an 85mm vz maf if you want to go down that path, I got one on ebay for $50 including the vz maf pipe which is much better than the crappy vt-vy pipe. You need the adaptor and a copy paste of the maf table in the tune (calibration is different), but for me it worked out cheaper than buying a new mafless pipe and works just as well.
 

conp

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The yanks do it all the time, but the vt-vy maf is a restriction especially when cammed. I'd grab an 85mm vz maf if you want to go down that path, I got one on ebay for $50 including the vz maf pipe which is much better than the crappy vt-vy pipe. You need the adaptor and a copy paste of the maf table in the tune (calibration is different), but for me it worked out cheaper than buying a new mafless pipe and works just as well.

Thanks for the info, btw are you using a OTR or CAI box for your setup?
 

07GTS

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the vcm otr that includes maf is legal... only mafless is not...
 

richardpalinkas

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Also the ramjet otr can retain the maf and is even stamped with an ADR compliant number.
 

ConstantVelocity

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07GTS

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most dont need oiling like vcm, ram ect, also a filter that is oiled is not legal they need to be dry to be legal...
 

conp

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That X-AIR looks impressive, any testimonials ? I'm not a fan of the oiled variety either....
 

PIR4TE

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Gotta laugh when conversation about performance gained by optimising volumetric flow inevitably turns into a CAI pissing contest.
Fact is there's not enough magic in any OTR to waste time and money pontificating which looks best or might contravene an interpretation of a design rule. Just go with an Australian one, FTW.
Seriously, most OTR are built like an oversized 110db plastic trumpet, all are capable of funneling over 1400 CFM. In psychological terms fitting one to a 250 CFM induction system is referred to as compensation.
WTF? Even with CNC-worked & hand finished heads, long duration high lift cam, oversized headers, ported intake and throttle body, the max volumetric flow possible from the latest LS is less than 25% of that!
Its worth noting you can get a 450 CFM replacement dry filter element for the VE for bugger all.
An OTR is not about increasing volumetric efficiency through volumetric flow at all, even the premise that one promotes cooler air assumes you are in a cool climate or on the highway. In my experience the location on top of the radiator for most driving in Australia is second only to mounting directly above the headers in terms of thermal efficiency.
After 100,000k through snow seasons and 47° dust storms running the same OTR as per the fastest VE dragsters, it seems the main tangible benefit is improved air density under certain specific conditions (when there is no heat soak) and a slightly pressurized air pocket (60kph+). Of course I have no doubt about glorious claims of short term gains (by way of repositioning the IAT / MAF) either.
What I've found is a bloody big trumpet on top of your radiator will increase your dyno result and make a shed lot of noise... but if you want repeatable performance under typical road conditions then upgrade your intake manifold, which is by far the weakest link in the LS induction chain over 300 CFM.
 

WogBoyz

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Gotta laugh when conversation about performance gained by optimising volumetric flow inevitably turns into a CAI pissing contest.
Fact is there's not enough magic in any OTR to waste time and money pontificating which looks best or might contravene an interpretation of a design rule. Just go with an Australian one, FTW.
Seriously, most OTR are built like an oversized 110db plastic trumpet, all are capable of funneling over 1400 CFM. In psychological terms fitting one to a 250 CFM induction system is referred to as compensation.
WTF? Even with CNC-worked & hand finished heads, long duration high lift cam, oversized headers, ported intake and throttle body, the max volumetric flow possible from the latest LS is less than 25% of that!
Its worth noting you can get a 450 CFM replacement dry filter element for the VE for bugger all.
An OTR is not about increasing volumetric efficiency through volumetric flow at all, even the premise that one promotes cooler air assumes you are in a cool climate or on the highway. In my experience the location on top of the radiator for most driving in Australia is second only to mounting directly above the headers in terms of thermal efficiency.
After 100,000k through snow seasons and 47° dust storms running the same OTR as per the fastest VE dragsters, it seems the main tangible benefit is improved air density under certain specific conditions (when there is no heat soak) and a slightly pressurized air pocket (60kph+). Of course I have no doubt about glorious claims of short term gains (by way of repositioning the IAT / MAF) either.
What I've found is a bloody big trumpet on top of your radiator will increase your dyno result and make a shed lot of noise... but if you want repeatable performance under typical road conditions then upgrade your intake manifold, which is by far the weakest link in the LS induction chain over 300 CFM.

manifolds arnt that weak on the later model LS (l98, L77, lS3) I made 351rkw with the standard one, and my mates maloo cammed/heads ect ect only gained 5rwhp when putting one of them fast 102 ones on, so they do the job pretty well

ls2 and ls1's do apparently have good gains with manifold changes tho
 

PIR4TE

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manifolds arnt that weak on these man, I made 351rkw with the standard one, and my mates maloo cammed/heads ect ect only gained 5rwhp when putting one of them fast 102 ones on

the std heads and manifold on the ve's arnt too shabby from factory

Yeah I know mate, amazingly better than the GenIII in terms of flow, a new paradigm for LS modders that requires some new thinking.
Here's the chart I posted in the FAST manifold thread a couple of months ago.
e7ajasab.jpg

GenIV heads and intake are very good, the heads better than the intake. Max 330 CFM @ 1psi though. I have some idea why the Maloo didn't benefit from 102mm and TB (see plot of FAST 102 above), did it have a high duration lumpy idle cam needing a stall?
In any case your 351rwkw with cam was excellent, now with boost and heads is mind blowing. Have you worked out your VE post install?
I get 300rwkw without cam, pushing 318 CFM via rockers, using low duration / high lift to maximise the L92 heads on e85.
 
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