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Updating the VF to 2020

zero_tolerance

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Can't agree at all with this. Calais V (and simply Calais pre VE) was always the luxury focussed model. It missed out on numerous items that the Redline had as well, Should Calais have scored brembos and suspension tweaks, launch control etc that redline got in that case?

The vehicles catered to two different markets and had the various options and features specifically tailored to suit. Makes perfect sense to me.

It seems to be the common perception on this forum that redline was just far and away better than anything else, despite it only being $500 (RRP) more expensive than a V8 Calais V.

I don't see it that way. If it was the base SS we were talking about, then yes, decontenting this model is justifiable - it is the base model and customers expect it to be basic.
The Redline however was pitched as the premium SS model and was priced accordingly, therefore it shouldn't have been cheapened by removing features that are expected at this price.
Seeing that they didn't have a Calais V Redline on offer in the VF series, they should have compensated by keeping Calais V features in the SSV Redline.
Things like electric passenger seat and auto dipping mirrors are features which already existed - absolutely no extra engineering would have been required. The cost to include them would have been minimal. Hell, I would have been more than happy to pay for them as an extra option, but even that wasn't offered.
Look at the amount of Redline owners who are lamenting the lack of these features in their cars - It clearly shows there is/was a demand for them and that Holden underestimated their customer's expectations.
 

tml678

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I don't see it that way. If it was the base SS we were talking about, then yes, decontenting this model is justifiable - it is the base model and customers expect it to be basic.

The Redline however was pitched as the premium SS model and was priced accordingly, therefore it shouldn't have been cheapened by removing features that are expected at this price.

same as base Calais vs V. Again should V owners expect the performance fruit of the SSVR, given the almost identical price tag and the fact it was pitched as the premium Calais model?, same argument?

Things like electric passenger seat and auto dipping mirrors are features which already existed - absolutely no extra engineering would have been required. The cost to include them would have been minimal.

it's nothing to do with requiring any extra engineering, these are seen as comfort/convenience inclusions - the domain of Calais. It harks way back to the earliest VH SS models. These were pure performance with little creature comforts, which remained exclusive to SL/E models

Look at the amount of Redline owners who are lamenting the lack of these features in their cars

Then they should have bought a Calais. It's clear Holden were trying to differentiate the models. They stopped semi-customisation many moons ago, rightly or wrongly. You either get sport or luxury. The standard inclusions were clearly tailored towards each.

edit - I will concede however, an electric 4 way passenger seat probably should have made its way into the car, certainly by series II
 
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Skylarking

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Milo 6.0

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Its all about hp for me,should have had more bloody hp!
 

Forg

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There are features that are wank, and there are features that are really useful.

However, it seems everyone has a different opinion on what's wank. I frankly couldn't give a toss about electric seats, in fact it takes longer for me to adjust an electric seat (am I doing it wrong?) ... puddle lights are meh ... and I live in Sydney so heated (& ventilated) seats are similarly meh. However, HUD turns out to be a brilliant thing & whatever our next car is will have to have it, being able to have up-to-date SatNav is definitely important so that means CarPlay & Android Auto are a big thing, and radar cruise that works is brilliant stuff & I'd really want that.

I don't think there's anything in the top-spec VF Calais that's missing from the Redline that I don't consider wank. But it seems others have different opinions. Some of the stuff that's missing from a Commodore that went into a Chev SS I don't consider wank; the electronic suspension, the HID's, but on the other hand I do wonder how long the electronic suspension will last before you're payng good money to retrofit normal suspension, a la 1980's 626/Telstar.
 

Skylarking

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I don't think there's anything in the top-spec VF Calais that's missing from the Redline that I don't consider wank.
Maybe when you're on the highway and you have to flick the rear vision mirror to avoid the blinding light from the knob behind you with his high beams on, you may then feel the electrochromatic mirror would have been an easy inclusion in the redlines. Just maybe (since they didn’t complete the package with electrochromatic side mirrors :rolleyes:
... I do wonder how long the electronic suspension will last before you're payng good money to retrofit normal suspension...
Yeah I also had some concerns. From what I have read on the web, the magnetic dampers can leak early in your ownership, and thus get repaired under warranty, or they will last a long long time. What’s more interesting is how the ride control module can be reprogrammed to change rebound and compression damming for a given setting :rolleyes:

Ps: interesting that Corvette owners can buy a C7 Cevrolet Performance calibration file from GM which alters the standard calibration but I suspect no one cares about the few Chevy SS’s or Holden/HSV magnetic ride vehicles. So in theory the scope exists for lots of purchasable updates to come to our redlines but doubt they would as GM’s given up with our market :oops:
 
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panhead

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Then they should have bought a Calais. It's clear Holden were trying to differentiate the models. They stopped semi-customisation many moons ago, rightly or wrongly. You either get sport or luxury. The standard inclusions were clearly tailored towards each.

edit - I will concede however, an electric 4 way passenger seat probably should have made its way into the car, certainly by series II


The argument about performance versus luxury has been around forever.

Other companies can find a place in their product line up for a combination of the two.

The idea of a barebones performance car under the Holden brand has been enticing for car enthusiasts for a long time and the early HQ SS was a good first example.

Sadly Holden’s idea of performance for that model was a 253 engine and those who wanted something they could actually call performance went for the higher spec 308 models.

I’ve seen this argument on other forums and most enthusiasts like the idea of a stripped out racer based on the late model SS or just a cheaper version performance car like the VY SV8 but in reality most would prefer to purchase a fully loaded luxury variant.

I own a couple of straight out performance cars with no bells and whistles or creature comforts and I can tell you their desirability as a daily wanes very quickly and as most of new cars are sold as a daily driver most owners want the luxury.

I’d would have bought a V8 Calais V in a flash over a Redline if the Calais came stock with the Brembo brakes and a manual trans.

Holden haven’t been able to gauge their customers wants for a long time and really lost the plot when they felt they could dictate to the customer what to buy and look how that worked out for them.

Leaving out a ‘Jesus Handle’ and electric driver and passenger seats in a modern day Ute in an age when factoring in the needs of people with disabilities is paramount is just wrong in my opinion.

The car isn’t marketable to some customers and not including them had nothing to do with performance or luxury it’s just plain cheap and who cares what the customer wants.

Try adjusting a seat with a disabled adult passenger sitting in it by having to reach down between their legs and use all your strength with a bent back trying to overcome their weight to move the seat forward and you'll know what I mean.

Why would you purchase a Commodore with no electric passenger seat, there's a portion of your buying public gone elsewhere right there.




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