Urgent Advice need on the L77

[M500]

For what it is worth, I would be insisting on a brand new engine that is not tampered with at all. Even if this means they need to change the computer, etc, etc. This way you are ensured of a brand new engine, factory warranty and the best chance that you will solve your problems.

I have never heard of a factory backed dealer wanting to modify a brand new engine under warranty.

 

[UFO]

Holden has said they will install the motor as is however I would be made to sign an indemnity form which states that if there motor fails its on me.

I think regardless of the advice you get here, this seals the deal.
Let them do what they think needs doing, and if it doesnt make any difference (and the real cause of the problem continues to cause dramas) then they'll just have to change things over again.
There's no way you could agree to sign a disclaimer... so you really dont have an option.

However you'd think that a brand new engine from the factory wouldnt require opening at all.... it does sound sus, but really- if they insist on this disclaimer thing you havent got an option.

 

[bluessv]

Hey Hexem, did you end up calling that performance shop about what exactly are the internals of the L77??

 

[HEXEM]

Hey Hexem, did you end up calling that performance shop about what exactly are the internals of the L77??

Hi mate, yep as dicussed on the phone. It was thought that all 16 lifters may have been the same in the L77. I have since confirmed withe NJC Corp in Melbourne that the L77 has a combination of AFM and non AFM lifters (8 of each).

Just for some additional information. The L77 also uses the same camshaft as the L76 (Holden Part No. 12625438) Prior to Aug 2010 the camshaft for L76 was Part No. 12607715.

 

[jace75]

i still think they dont want you to have the AFM because it is later tech. that wasnt a smart ass answer.
why else would they be opening a new off the line engine and taking out the cam and replacing it with old one?
as you have said doesnt make sense.
Holden are tight they very rarely give you something for free.
as suggested insist on the unopened engine being installed in your car.

 

[SSVAGON]

i still think they dont want you to have the AFM because it is later tech. that wasnt a smart ass answer.
why else would they be opening a new off the line engine and taking out the cam and replacing it with old one?
as you have said doesnt make sense.
Holden are tight they very rarely give you something for free.
as suggested insist on the unopened engine being installed in your car.

How about this,

Maybe the cam shafts have been the issue/problem all along. Maybe they dont want to chance putting in a new motor into HEXEM's car given his history even if it is a L77.
As HEXEM said the cam shaft part number according to him is the same in a L77 as it is in the L76 until after Aug 2010. I would bet the L77 they have or the instock L77's are all built pre Aug 2010. If it is I suspect they want to change the cam to the later part number or a revised cam shaft or even do the cam bearings as well before it goes in.
Just a different way to look at it. Persoanlly I dont think Holden could care less about AFM.

 

[jace75]

ok ill bite whats all that got to do with a new revised motor?
why do they have to open it? there are thousands of s2's out there now that are working fine.
they dont need to change a single thing to put it in.

cam comes with new engine?

 

[HEXEM]

Jace, I think your right. Taking out the cam thats in it and putting in an L98 cam plus changing some seals under the valley plate so I dont have and engine with new technology. There is no other reason for it. But their logic is flawed otherwise unless they can explain the technical reason why it wouldn't work as is.

If this is the case of the technology what a petty and childish way to act. Clearly they couldn't care less about satisfying the customer who spent near $50k (on their product) which I now think is a bucket of ****. They could have atleast said they would put a brand new L98 camshaft in it, not scavenge it from a used motor with a fault they can't diagnose.

The old saying penny wise, pound foolish!

On the issue of part changes in the L77. From what I and some others have been working out, there are a couple of member on here that have mid 2010 built commodore series 2 V8's that have developed the same knocking noise I have had (and currently still do). It the U.S. GM there addresses a number of issue with valvetrain rattle and other things by revising the internal componant but the parts were not available until after Dec2010 (approximatly). These parts would not have filtered through the production of L77 engine from North America until 2011. Those who own the same car only built from March 2011 seem to have no issues as shown in the videos. In 2011 the Holden parts system records a change in the part number for a replacement camshaft which services both L76 and L77.

It is purely speculative but L77 build and delivered before Jan 2011 which have an engine build date around July 2010 could infact have L76 engine with upgraded external to meet the required specs. An L77 is essentially an up spec L76. This could all be proven wrong if someone with a March 2011 or later build V8 complains of the same issue.

 

[SSVAGON]

On the issue of part changes in the L77. From what I and some others have been working out, there are a couple of member on here that have mid 2010 built commodore series 2 V8's that have developed the same knocking noise I have had (and currently still do). It the U.S. GM there addresses a number of issue with valvetrain rattle and other things by revising the internal componant but the parts were not available until after Dec2010 (approximatly). These parts would not have filtered through the production of L77 engine from North America until 2011. Those who own the same car only built from March 2011 seem to have no issues as shown in the videos. In 2011 the Holden parts system records a change in the part number for a replacement camshaft which services both L76 and L77.

It is purely speculative but L77 build and delivered before Jan 2011 which have an engine build date around July 2010 could infact have L76 engine with upgraded external to meet the required specs. An L77 is essentially an up spec L76. This could all be proven wrong if someone with a March 2011 or later build V8 complains of the same issue.

I think you got it there.

 

[HEXEM]

I have received some addtional information, this time from a Walkinshaw Performance centre stating that while there is nothing mechanical within the motor itself that requires changing, they will have to change the following.

1. L77 fuel injectors - reason - Because they are different to cope with E-85 flex fuel. Apparently my ECM will not control them with the proper flow rate or something?

2. The Throttle Body - reason - Something to do with my current L98 TB blade is alloy and the L77 TB has a brass one. It also opens and closes in a different direction. Again something to do with the ECM control?

3. The Manifold Absoulte Pressure (MAP) sensor needs to be changed to the one I have now as the later model MAP sensor will not work properly.

So basically they are saying the all these (TB, Fuel Injectors and MAP sensor) need to be swapped over from my current L98 to the new L77. But it will need to be checked first to make 100% sure.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. It might be a case of slight recalibration of the ECM to accommodate for these minor things. The only thing that might be an issue is the connectors on the engine wiring harness for the TB and MAP sensor. They might not fit the newer ones.

Cheers

Phil