V6 Rear main seal retaining plate bolt locating bushes

[Old_School]

The kit was sold as genuine & it has not been easy finding Info, So Thanks heaps Tonner that Pic You thought crappy showed me exactly what I was missing, & I know now I'm searching for " Dowels ". I guess they've used the bolts & dowels out it & sold it on @ top $ still & played dumb about it & left me to work it out , I got put on to the store manager of the Sprints @ Hectorville who couldnt understand how it could have happened, but finally said he would refund me but it didnt help me out of the predicament, & then he gave me a phone number from Metro which was strange & said that part isnt servicable anymore, & You can only get it in a kit & apparently only if its old stock, Im guessing because Hamiltons opened up one Rear Main Seal Kit before I bought it in front of me after insisting they were in there & They wern't & I ended up walking away with No suggestions & No part & a sketchy photo copied diagram labeling it as part 12 in the diagram from their PC but it wasnt in the Kit , at least I know what 1 looks like now, & I have a pic & a name, Thanks for taking the time to respond, Cheers Tonner , regards Jack.

 

[Tonner Matt]

Too easy Jack.
I know it's not a great help as you'll have to wait a few days for delivery, but..........
Here is a link to a rear main seal & plate assembly for sale on ebay from Alan Mance Holden in Melton.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE...852341&hash=item41ce2cab5e:g:a6kAAOSwd0BV5nMH

For what it's worth......I've never seen those genuine rear main plate assemblies come without the bolts & plastic locater dowels.
So you should be safe purchasing from these guys.
I know once bitten twice shy, give them a call to confirm that their part has the plastic locaters fitted........I'm sure they will understand after the issues you've had

And if I do remember correctly, you couldn't purchase the locater dowels by themselves either.

 

[Old_School]

Thanks for the Link, thats what ive been hearing everywhere ive searched & asked so far also, & I definetly will call before I buy, Cheers Tonner, ur a Legend !!

 

[L36hunter]

Those plastic dowels arent tgat great in my opinion. They distort when they get hot and the plate moves creating a leak at the rear main seal. Ive replaced them with aluminium sleeves so theres no chance of movement and reuseable if need be. I just bought some a/c fittings from ashdown ingrams that had the right o/d and i/d and cut off the mushroom top. I also drilled 2 holes into the sump so i could put bolts into the bottom of the rear plate for extra security and sump sealing. Ill post a pic of them tomorrow

 

[Old_School]

Those plastic dowels arent tgat great in my opinion. They distort when they get hot and the plate moves creating a leak at the rear main seal. Ive replaced them with aluminium sleeves so theres no chance of movement and reuseable if need be. I just bought some a/c fittings from ashdown ingrams that had the right o/d and i/d and cut off the mushroom top. I also drilled 2 holes into the sump so i could put bolts into the bottom of the rear plate for extra security and sump sealing. Ill post a pic of them tomorrow

Thanks for your Input L36hunter, Im just trying to do the Job & Do It Right Once, for my son, & save him all that hassle & $ wasted in leaked oil. I would still appreciate the pics You said you would post thankyou, & always take on board new ways, & revised methods if something can be proven, even though my son will be glad just to have it going again. Its been a real learning curve, & now I know why the bits were missing, because they've gotten a lot harder to find, i've discovered, ive messaged the ebay shop re them parts & havent seen a reply yet but its only been 1 day, & still want to know about your alternative, the parts are disappearing & Holden said they are an unservicable part now, so I'm bound to need it one day I have we have 3 other ecotecs, that are fine now but they all wear out eventually, Thanks.

 

[L36hunter]

I've unfortunately been out all day today but will post tomorrow morning. I'll try see if i can find a part number for the fittings while I'm at it too.

 

[Alcyone]

I picked up the rear main plate kit from Tonner Matt's link above (Alan Mance Holden eBay) a few months ago and it worked perfect. I had already bought a Permaseal gasket set which had the plastic retainers but when I got the new rear main kit, it had them in it too. So I just used the new ones even though the other ones had only been on for a few days. The Permaseal kit had some shonky gaskets in it and the rear main gasket was a dud too. When I fit it, it leaked coolant into my sump and all down the bellhousing. Make sure you do it right the first time. It's kinda hard not to line it up right. Some people use custom jigs etc but if your using everything new plate, gasket, bolts, retainers - it's kinda hard to get it wrong. Run a bead of what you prefer along the top of the sump where it meets the rear housing and also around the gasket (engine side) where the coolant ports are. I ran some ultra blue around most of the gasket so I didn't have to get back down there again. You also have the option of doing what L36Hunter did and plonk some holes in the rear of the sump to put a couple of bolts in. The rear main plate comes with 2 holes down the bottom for bolts. Crafty design. I was considering that but I was at the end of the rebuild and the engine was already back in the car and I didn't want to take the sump off to clean any debris from drilling out just in case. I got lucky I guess and everything came out good. Touch wood! ...now to go post on my air con woes...

 

[Old_School]

I picked up the rear main plate kit from Tonner Matt's link above (Alan Mance Holden eBay) a few months ago and it worked perfect. I had already bought a Permaseal gasket set which had the plastic retainers but when I got the new rear main kit, it had them in it too. So I just used the new ones even though the other ones had only been on for a few days. The Permaseal kit had some shonky gaskets in it and the rear main gasket was a dud too. When I fit it, it leaked coolant into my sump and all down the bellhousing. Make sure you do it right the first time. It's kinda hard not to line it up right. Some people use custom jigs etc but if your using everything new plate, gasket, bolts, retainers - it's kinda hard to get it wrong. Run a bead of what you prefer along the top of the sump where it meets the rear housing and also around the gasket (engine side) where the coolant ports are. I ran some ultra blue around most of the gasket so I didn't have to get back down there again. You also have the option of doing what L36Hunter did and plonk some holes in the rear of the sump to put a couple of bolts in. The rear main plate comes with 2 holes down the bottom for bolts. Crafty design. I was considering that but I was at the end of the rebuild and the engine was already back in the car and I didn't want to take the sump off to clean any debris from drilling out just in case. I got lucky I guess and everything came out good. Touch wood! ...now to go post on my air con woes...

Thanks
Alcyone
for the tips, It wasnt til i got home from Sprints & had everything out Autotrans wise & had the old assembly out & the region cleaned up & ready to start replacing with new parts that I opened the until then still sealed & wrapped with plastic, which was different to the other genuine kits btw that were in compact brown cardboard box still with the same bar codes, that I discovered there wernt any bolts let alone dowels, & Xmas brought everything to a standstill. I went to wire brush up my old still viable bolts thinking that they didnt supply them & thats when I discovered all the collapsed & fatigued & probably reused dowels that I worked out I needed more & didnt get them, when I was supposed to, & because I didnt know any of this & found out Sprints had to have, that Im tripled annoyed to say the least, , & have'nt minded puclicly naming the parties involved to help some other innocent DIYer avoid the pitfalls i copped, & luckily have been helped put straight, by the generous members on Just Commodores, Cheers Jack.

 

[Alcyone]

Yep I agree, this place is awesome for help. So many people with knowledge getting us out of strife! ...and into it too sometimes lol

Depending, definitely worth replacing everything back there for peace of mind. Don't wanna have to pull the tranny back out.

What stage are you up to now? Do you only need the guides or did you take the kit back? I can confirm that the Holden kits come with the plastic guides. Pretty sure they import the whole kit complete. I was (and still am) such a noob - in the Holden kit, I thought the rear main seal they had pre inserted in the cover was white plastic. I was devastated. Was just about to put the rear cover on and the white plastic thing popped out. I freaked. Then I realised that the white plastic was just to protect the actual rear main seal

Sucks getting that far into it and not having what's required. Having a purchased item not come with everything required is a real hassle. You expect it to be in there and you feel cheated really. I once bought some plenum bolts from a Holden dealer and they all came in separate paper packs. Got to the car and started to count them and noticed that about 4 of the packs had already been opened and there were no bolts inside. Some wally had opened them obviously, taken them out and thrown the empty packs back onto the stock shelf. I went back in and told them but the chap thought I had flogged them. I think more than anything he was embarrassed about what happened, couldn't accept responsibility and wanted to blame me for it. Over a year later and every time I go back there, I ask them if they have gotten the replacement bolts in yet. Needless to say they never have.

I originally used the old bolts but I guess because they had already pre-stretched, when I did them up to torque and then angle, I might have fractionally over tightened them because of them already being stretched. I think that's how it works? Should have done them up a touch looser but I was none the wiser back then (still am). Makes it hard with supposed tty bolts that's why when I used the new bolts, it was perfect. Honestly I thought they were fine and still do. But I'd rather at that point just to replace everything than go through that again.

Possibility too that the rear plate was warped but the machining shop said it was fine to reuse. They even gave it a once over for me. Worst bit was the Permaseal rear cover gasket pre-glued sealant strip (which I never noticed until after removal) wasn't straight and actually wasn't just off centre but ran off the gasket. Definitely put some sealant on for peace of mind. Needless to say that the Permaseal phone call ended up with them never ringing me back as they promised and fobbed me off coz I wanted them to wear the cost of the rear cover kit, oil, coolant and oil filter. More than happy to name them too because they don't even know what gaskets come in their kits. They just copy other gaskets and o-rings and their gasket quality and quality control is crap.

 

[markovr]

I've found with even the alloytec engines a lot of their bolts have that centring bush on their bolts and it looks like a piece of black plastic cut off a long length of extruded tube .
From what I've read the drama with the rear seal plate is the actual paper gasket decay failure on a old engine and normally the alloy plate is fine and all you need is a new gasket and a new rear main seal ....on early ecotecs I remember reading the the positioning of the plate was stressed in the manual was super important ...and you needed a tool to position it right ... On later engines they must have put the plastic bush in the bolt holes to make instal easier