V8 statesman VR with error codes 41 & 42 how to fix ??

[5.0Ltr-StatesMan]

My VR StatesMan 5.0 is not getting spark to plugs , the other night whilst driving I felt the engine murmur from weak spark , a few minutes later it stopped dead, and could not be started.:rip: Had to hire a car trailer , and after spending four hours rooting around with planks & bricks by torchlight we actually managed to get it on the car trailer....I now hate Lowered cars...

I have tried replacing the coil , but still no spark

I ran the diagnostic it reported Codes 41 & 42

41 Electronic Spark Timing EST output circuit failure
42 Ignition bypass circuit failure

what are these parts & what should I do to fix the family car PLEASE:bow::cry:

 

[Cheap6]

The most likely problem is a dead ignition module which is the lump of alloy and electronics bolted to the left hand inner guard. They are quite pricy so you might like to do a few basic checks first, such as ensuring the plug at the distributor for the Hall sensor (ignition input signal to the module) is properly connected and none of the wires connecting the ignition components together have broken internally through old age.

Another possibility is that the hall sensor itself has failed or the ECM is faulty. Those are less likely.

There are a few previous threads on here on code 41 and 42 so a search will probably help some.

 

[89 vn]

42 is most likely something like the coilpack. thats what it was on my vn but im sure vr-s are the same so check that?

 

[Cheap6]

No coil pack on V8 .

This would probably cover it as well as anything:

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...-1988-1993/19861-code-42-diagnostic-mode.html

and from that another two simple checks would be the fusible links (in front of the fuse box on the driver's side of the engine bay) and the EFI relay (inside the fuse box).

 

[5.0Ltr-StatesMan]

Thank you guys for your input

I will investigate the wire connections further , but I think its going to be the Ignition module....Oh i forgot to mention that it sounds like the timing is being moved about when attempting to start engine....

 

[5.0Ltr-StatesMan]

Here's an update , I removed the Ignition module and open it and noticed a few black spots on the circuit board, It also smelt like it had the dick..

So I settled on that being the problem , and lamented not being able to afford a new one anywhere in the near future..moneys really tight at the present .

Anyways the mrs (in one of here rare moments of actually being helpfull:thumbsup::yeah found one on OZtion for $60 2nd hand.
It arrived today and looked ok upon visual inspection of the circuit board.

I referred to that helpfull diagram cheap6 posted but decided just plug her up and hit the key would suffice for now . I also fitted a new bosch coil .

Despite hope and prayer still no vrrrrooomm vrrroooommm screeeeeeeeeech or victory doughnuts:w00t: for the neighbours....:supersad::supersad:

Ive noticed that the engines timing (possibly the EST? ) is kind of erratic while cranking the motor , and while the ignition is left on a faint high pitch hum can be heard from the alternator/Ignition module area, I thought i was hearing things when the previous Ign Mod also did it...
I removed the plugs into the Ign Mod and the noise doesn't go away:unsure:

Although I'm glad I replaced the Ign Mod , I think that Cheap6 was on the money with the distributor (reference?)wire as some clown of a past owner did an absolute ****ty job of the wiring to a new coil.

Have not looked forward to getting at the distributor cap , looks like itd be as much work as changing 4 flat tyres with only a hammer & mop as tools...

But am going now to do it , will lecture you all again with results

would be gratefull if someone could show me wheres the EST unit /what does it look like PLease :bow:

 

[Cheap6]

I understand the money being tight bit.

Yes, the distributor is tricky to get at on an 304 .

There is no 'EST unit' as such. EST just means that the ECM is controlling the spark timing.

The hum sounds normal.

There is a short explanation of how a code 42 is set in the first of the scanned pages but this: http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vn-vp-holden-commodore-1988-1993/65748-fault-code-42-a.html post #9, may also help.

The diagnostic procedure outlined in the second of the two scanned pages is fairly straightforward if the car doesn't start i.e. the fault that set the code is present, but does require the use of an ammeter and test light. Suitable items can be purchased for ~$25 (for both) but it's up to you to decide whether they increase the likelihood of an accurate diagnosis and therefore represent value for money over guessing with fresh parts. A bit six of one...etc. Both the test light and the ammeter need to have high enough resistance so as not to cause damage during testing but that's it.

The risk with used parts is that they may also be faulty - what comes to mind is a VL where I went through three (wrecker sourced) distributors (crank angle sensors) before finding one that fixed that problem. Very easy to start doubting a diagnosis in that situation. By that I mean, the (new) ignition module as faulty still can't be ruled out entirely. That shouldn't be taken to imply that I think the fresh one is faulty, just that you can't rule that out yet.

Dodgy wiring, typically from alarm installation in my experience but that for the coil too here, is often a good place to start.

If you do have/buy a test light, the output from the Hall (crank angle) sensor can be checked. It will be easiest to do that at the ignition module and that will also check the wiring between the sensor and module. There are only the three wires, which of those does what I can't tell you off the top of my head but it won't be too hard to work out.

With the ignition on, there will be a power source to the sensor from the ignition module. There will be an earth. There will be a signal wire that acts to earth the power supply to the sensor as the engine (sensor) is rotated.

 

[5.0Ltr-StatesMan]

First , Thank you cheap6 , your input is valuable & I sincerely appreciate the time you've taken so far to write me letters of worth I hope somebody is as equallly kind to you sometime soon !

I do have a Multimeter if that will serve as a ammeter , I only usually use it for DC volts so not sure . It's nothing special, $10 from silly sollys , Also have test light & Spark plug pulse tester.

I understand the fact that you cant beat new parts , just hate being charged $500 for something that would cost them sweet F-A to make , Sigh, Anyways wont flog a dead horse...Even after weeks of walking everywhere mostly whilst raining ...

 

[kopper69]

Just remember that your multimeter is only good to about 10A. Any more and you will blow the fuse and not get any reading. Try and work out how much power the circuit is going to draw before connecting the multimeter. If you think it may exceed 10A, either have spare fuses handy or dont do the measurement.

 

[greenfoam]

Changing out the dizzy cap is only a couple minutes job if you go about it the right way. I've done it heaps of times now. You just throw a coat or something on the engine so you're comfy and lay on it then you can reach everything pretty easy